The Alcoholics Anonymous Alternative
Is there an alternative to Alcoholics Anonymous? Do the 12 steps really work? These are questions that most alcoholics will ask when they decide that they want to change.
Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) originated in Akron, Ohio in the 1930′s from religious individuals grouping together to solve their alcoholism. The 12 steps soon emerged as a formula for all addicts to follow if they were to stay sober.
From the very beginning, complete abstinence was seen as the only answer. Of course this does work for some people, but clearly not for everyone.
Figures for how effective the 12 step recovery process is are impossible to find. Estimates suggest only about 5% of people who attend meetings regularly stay sober for more than a year. Not much more than the placebo effect really.
However, AA and NA (Narcotics Anonymous) do develop networks of community support, which is undoubtedly very positive. The support given is from other addicts or alcoholics of course, not trained professionals. And by their very nature the meetings are public access, anyone can attend, so they are clearly not anonymous (especially when you are required to state your name).
The main objection many people have to the philosophy is its rigidity, and there are references to relinquishing personal responsibility. The reams of cheap slogans don’t help much either.
Ok, so anyone who hasn’t seen them before must be wondering, what are these 12 steps then? Here you are –
- “We… admitted we were powerless over alcohol, that our lives had become unmanageable.”
- “Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.”
- “Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.”
- “Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.”
- “Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.”
- “Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.”
- “Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.”
- “Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.”
- “Made direct amends to such people whenever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.”
- “Continued to take a personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.”
- “Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.”
- “Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles.”
Any of you who are not particularly religious might be squirming a little right now.
The Higher Power issue is the biggest problem that people seem to have with Alcoholics Anonymous or NA.
Handing over responsibility for your problems and the solution of them, it doesn’t sit well with modern approaches to psychological self-help does it? SELF responsibility and empowerment are essential to good mental health.
“One of the things they (AA) tell you is you are powerless – you must submit, that’s stupid. Once you become sober, you realize you do have the power to quit.”
Strangely there’s not many references to alcohol in those 12 steps. Or indeed how to prevent yourself giving in to cravings. It seems like will-power, determination and faith are supposed to get you sober. That and some apologies of course.
Of course, there are different interpretations of these 12 steps, and many AA groups do advocate a more liberal approach, with the meetings themselves being seen as the higher power.
In my experience, people appreciate a more personalised view of their addiction and recovery, one in which each person’s background and personality are taken into account. The cognitive approach to addiction encourages the person to look at themselves and discover what they need to change, then helps them to make those changes in any sequence they choose. It provides strategies to understand the psychological mechanisms of your addiction.
The AA idea is to work through each of the steps with various written tasks. Should anyone relapse or have a drink at any point, they have to go back to step one and start again (snakes & ladders anyone?).
The alternative view suggests that abstinence is not the only option, for many people a healthier level of consumption is possible. We can help you to become the expert, so you are not dependent on either a group, or on your counsellor. You learn the skills to take control of your alcoholism.
The AA view is there is no cure for alcoholism or addiction, it is seen as a disease, which again slightly removes any personal responsibility from the equation – “I can’t help it, I’ve got a disease”. We view it more as a set of habitual patterns, cognitive and emotional automatic behaviours that can easily be un-learnt and replaced with something healthier.
So maybe there are alternatives to AA for alcoholics, ones with more flexibility and a more personal approach.
Hi,
I really enjoy your web site. I noticed that you have mentioned an AA alternative. I have attended AA meetings on and off for 10 years. The problem is that I drank more when I attended AA. I would suggest that people do some research on AA because I have found that there’s a great number of people who have been harmed by AA, rather than helped.
There’s a gaggle of people who’ve always wanted out of AA but didn’t know that other recovery organizations exist. I’m sure with a little research you’ll find that AA is actually more harm than help when it comes to addiction.
As a society we’ve came to believe that AA is a cure for addiction…well in reality the opposite is actually the truth.
I don’t want to mention other organizations or web sites…for fear that you’ll think I’m trying to promote other organizations…or I’m some poor deranged anti-AA zealot.
All I’m asking is that you check this out.
I like the approaches that you set out on this site and I think they do offer an alternative to AA. That said, I think your comments on AA are a little unfair, especially with regard to saying that it denies accepting personal responsibility. I personally do not think that total abstinence is the only answer, but it is an option for some people to consider. This is from a current textbook on Substance Misuse:
I totally agree with your theory. Your statement about handing over responsibility for problems to a “Higher Power” removes any personal responsibility.
I have struggled for years searching for that HP. I admit, I feel a lot secular in this area. Sorry, I just cannot find a difference between religion and spirituality. AA has become a quasi- religious cult based on superstition and GUILT.
Recent cases in the United States Supreme Court are close to ruling in favor of Constitutional Rites violations in requiring prison inmates to attend AA meetings; the First Amendment’s separation of church and state. Depends on how the Judges interpret the Christian Flavor of how the Big Book of AA is written and references to GAWD.
The statistics do not lie, some are doomed. A lot find recovery outside of 12 step programs. More people stay sober in spite of AA recovery rather than because of them!
Thanks for your comments Ray, you’ve added some useful ideas.
Carl & Steve, it seems like you’ve had similar experiences with AA yourselves. But I wouldn’t want to suggest that people don’t give AA a try, because undoubtedly there are many people who have benefitted from it, and have stayed sober as a result.
But I think that for a lot of people these days, religion is just not a big part of their lives any more. So suggesting that they adopt a religious approach to solve their alcohol problems is really not that helpful.
The AA 12- step program can do anything they want as long as they change the rules of being forced to go. AA is a cult and I was forced to go or lose my career. I was mandated by a state agency with no alternative. I lost my career because I will not participate in such a program. I cannot believe I live in a free country and can be manadated to go to a religious program that I don’t believe in.
Oh yeah, I’ve been sober for over two years without the influence of other people telling me how to do it. I’m not a dry drunk either. I enjoy life and I believe in God. God does not lay out a certain 12 steps for us to go by to get close to him. Shame on all of you 12-steppers for not stopping the courts and allowing them to go against your rules and regulations.
As a child of an alcoholic, I was not given appropriate tools to prevent the inevitable…I ended up marrying one! AA gives the person who is misbehaving and who often has personality disorders or other mental health issues, complete absolution from responsibility. ‘Members’ can attend AA meetings like most people go to church…only a couple of times per year, and not affect their outlook on life. Many alcoholics are ‘sober’ but who behave with all the same manipulative, abusive, self-destructive behaviors…but they don’t drink, so they think they’re okay. It’s ridiculous. Alcoholism is a choice, not a disease!
I was a member of AA for 8 years. During that time, I was abused by a great many people, but I stayed sober. When I stopped going to meetings and working the 12 steps, I drank. AA does work, but it is not ideal.
I attended AA meetings for a year and a half. Within that time I seen how people treat others that relapse so to say – there was no unity. After the year and a half I made the choice to drink again, because all I did was think about drinking. So I drank for another three months and decided to try it again, but i got the same results. I would go to meetings and come out feeling worse, and all they told me was keep coming, or get on your knees and pray. I believe in god, but I also have to be responsible for my own actions. That’s why I’m trying to find an alternative. Does anyone have any suggestions?
I was an alcoholic for over 20 years. I always knew I wanted to quit. I crossed that line — you know, the one where you know you’ve gone too far. I researched all avenues of recovery, including AA. I am a Catholic and had no problem with a “higher power”.
But I disagree with AA when they say alcoholism is a disease. It wasn’t for me, it was a choice. I could have blamed my father, my mother, heredity. How could I do that when I was the one who drove to that liquor store and I was the one who bought that beer? I wanted to take responsibility for my actions. Make my higher power–ME!
People talk about choices. Once an alcoholic realizes there is no other choice, abstinence comes easy. I have control over my addictive voice. Do your research under “alternatives to AA” . I did it all on my own. My year is coming up next month. I never looked back – good luck to you all.
I have enjoyed reading the posts here. I was a drinker and eventually took other drugs as well from 1978 to 1995. I went to AA in the late 80′s and didn’t like it at all. I went again in 1995 and have been sober and clean ever since (having also become involved in NA).
I disagree with the assertion that the ‘steps’ stop one taking responsibility. In fact the way I looked at it was I am not able to tell you what might happen if I choose to drink or take a substance, so I am responsible for not taking them in the first place. It was then easier to do this when i had other people to check in with, at least in the beginning. That was my experience of AA and NA in Scotland.
There were the pseudo religious ones and there were people who did use it all as an excuse. I eventually had enough of the whole fellowship thing and found I had little to offer after a decade (although this was a shock to them and me!) Anyway about two years ago I started to drift away and am enjoying life in a more secular and secure way. I think any of these solutions are what the individual makes of them.
I appreciate and respect your approach to helping fellow alcoholics using a web based idea (if some are scared to go to meetings outside of the home). But I do have just one question:
How about those of us that don’t believe in God?
I don’t want to turn this in to a Christian or religious conversation/debate, but everywhere I turn to get help, they always resort to the religious factor. I myself don’t believe in turning to a entity that may not exist (sorry for any disrespect or prejudice I may have caused), when I very much rather do something that needs strengthening my body and mind by myself.
Don’t get me wrong, I do believe in a Goddess and God, but not the ones that the programs offered to me portray, or in some cases accept.
So, my question is that if there is a AA program that does all this great stuff with no religion involved?
There seems to be quite a bit of criticism of AA in this thread so I thought I’d stick up for the brainwashed 2 million recovered alkies. I should say to start with, that I AM a member of AA and have been sober for 2/3 years but I can see how people would be dubious or fearful of the nature of the program.
When I first went in I thought oh no, I know I’m crazy with the drink and need to stop, but I can do without the God bit and the personality transplant etc. I was a staunch atheist and the whole thing did stink to me of brainwashing and over-sentimental group therapy which I poo pooed (is that a word?), but you have to bear in mind that I was almost dead through having Hemophilia, HIV, Hep C and alcoholism and had tried every other avenue.
I had been to all the counsellors, psychologists, psychiatrists, read many self help books and followed various philosophies. I had been on health regimes, travelled far and wide in countless vain attempts to control or stop drinking. I am a person of huge will power and character, and having overcome these other life threatening situations that most people would buckle under I couldn’t believe I was powerless over a bottle of beer! I’d tried everything under the sun and if there was another way to do it, I’d have found it.
I struggled in AA too, and relapsed more times than I can remember, but it was when a kind man finally took me aside and offered to be my sponsor that things changed. When it was explained to me about the mental obsession (the one thought to drink that overcomes all other thoughts to the contrary) and the physical allergy (how my body don’t produce enough enzymes to process the acetaldehyde resulting in an actual physical craving beyond my control) it finally began to make sense.
Combined with doing the next few steps, something strange happened and something I’m not sure I can explain here really. It was as though I was released. I had the sensation of being set free, that I no longer had to struggle, and I had struggled terribly with all the will I, wont I drink scenarios, and usually coming off worse in all my battles with the booze.
i’m not religious but I do think now there is something beyond our 3D world and I think if we are humble enough to consider the prospect that maybe we aren’t the most powerful thing in the universe, then that power (god for want of a better term) can and will help us. I can say this because it happened to me. I thought it was a case of ‘oh tell them alkies anything to get em to stop drinking’ but I think we should remember that this is a program designed by alkies for alkies, and nobody’s making any money out of it either. Also, it says in the literature that AA doesn’t propose to have a monopoly on recovery. The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking..
As for personal responsibility, it’s ALL about taking responsibility for your life… kind of the opposite to getting drunk and blaming everyone else for all your problems!
but as the saying goes, “when you go on a journey never take an asshole with you, you can always get one when you get there”, this goes for AA meetings too!
but we’re all sick people trying to get better one day at a time and be generous enough in spirit to allow people the space to fuck up and hopefully come back and try to continue to grow..
The problem with AA for me, other than the fact it is a cult, is they do push the belief in a higher power which actually really only means one thing and we all know that. Many alcoholics are HIGHLY intelligent if not, in my opinion, overly intelligent and as such many of us find belief in something as intangible as God to be one of the reasons we drink to begin with. In that I must say, making someone believe in a higher power COULD eliminate self-destructive behaviour in some. I say could because alcoholics often, the ones that are highly intelligent, are also fatalists and see no point to THIS life so in many ways we see life as a sad means to an end and as such drink to alleviate this fatalism we have.
In terms of AA I think that if it helps someone that is great, but for me I never saw the benefits and I really wanted to if I am honest! I just saw a group of coffee and nicotine addicts that acted no different than any other cult and chanted and did the same things and even socialised together outside of the meetings, dated, slept with each other etc. There was also a lot of judgement and a feeling of parenting as you “needed” a sponsor and it was a constant person in your life that was checking up on you. I also found the dynamic actually often made me WANT to go drink because whether or not they are telling their stories to help others, some of the stories were “glorified war stories” and it actually made you “miss” the days you were normal and fun and wild. In fact, after AA meetings were usually when I would decide to relapse.
I am now hoping to moderate my drinking using Kudzu as I have heard so many good stories about it now. I do not believe that a real drinker will ever quit and in my honest opinion I think AA’s massive and documented failure rate is proof. Doctors should be looking for ways to change the brain chemistry of alcoholics which is where I think the key to alcoholism is.
I think there is a secondary type of alcoholic and I consider myself in this group, I call it the pickled type based on the expression a pickle can never again be a cucumber. I drank to solve my problems and drank so much over a year that I no longer had ANY control over my drinking. Abstaining for a year gave me control back BUT I lost it gradually again. I do not think this is as AA claims “because it is a progressive and fatal disease” I think it is both of those but not of character but of body. I think medicine needs to focus on the chemical changes in the brain that cause one to become “pickled” then they may answer two questions rather than one. I also think there is a third kind of alcoholic which is someone who does drink but only out of psychological reasons and never drinks enough, but is at risk, to “pickle” themselves. These are the ones that early intervention and moderation management can help because they have not changed their brain chemistry YET.
In any event I am hoping whatever it is in Kudzu will actually do whatever it does and help me so that I can drink moderately. I think abstinence is unfortunately unrealistic in our world.
well! its interesting thats for sure. i am an alcoholic. medically trained. i dont think its a disease but genetic yes thanks pretty much proven at the moment from mice studies and test on children of alcoholics ie increased sway response with alcohol.
only a personal opinion but the steps seem a god way to begin to me. AA seems to me not to believe in the disease concept. you can take or leave the god issue ie use this as meaning good orderly direction or group of drunks ie you aren`t doing a great job so listen to someone else and follow their advice.
many people say they have tried AA very few have followed the steps fully. its a bit like saying youve been on the motorway but didnt follow the satnav because XYZ excuse (you knew better) and didnt get where you thought you would.
i am not dismissing this site but i suspect meeting other alcoholics face to face may be an answer.
best wishes
Dr Peter.
The problem with AA isn’t so much the belief in a higher power (IMHO), as much as the fact that the addict is taught that responsibility lies elsewhere. He or she is “powerless” – and only God can save them.
Think about being “powerless” for a moment – and ask yourself the following question: Can I ever truly overcome ANYTHING if I believe myself to be powerless before it? The answer is, of course, no. And the answer will remain “no” whether you’re trying to get over an addiction to alcohol, the heartache of a failed relationship, or anything else in your life. You will never truly get over something as long as you consider IT to be superior to you, and you powerless before IT.
This belief weakens you before the very thing that you need to be strong against. It is learned helplessness and will cause you to develop a victim mentality. Even worse, your struggle against alcohol addiction will haunt you for the rest of your life if you choose to go down the AA road.
Whatever first step the addict chooses, it HAS to be one of self-empowerment if the addiction is to be once and for all conquered.
I’ve been in and out of the anonimity programs for 16 years now and in all this time I haven’t come to a formal conclusion about it. And I’m happy not to!
It says that it works if you work it. I have worked it in the past and it did work…for a while.
I’m beginning to see that if I commit to this program I have to personalise it; adapt it to suit my particular personality and experience. I take what I need and leave the rest these days.
For the most part I don’t see the group itself as my HP although sometimes the wisdom and compassion in certain people seems to speak to me directly.
So without a doubt there are things and people in the program that are helpful and there are also things and people who aren’t.
I also still get quite ‘angry’ when I hear the ‘God’ word but I’m trying to acknowledge that this is because my understanding of it is childlike and fearful because this was the nature of the people who taught it to me.
I don’t believe in a ‘God’ except perhaps as a collective archetype so I try to acknowledge my childhood conditioning and move beyond that to a more ‘spiritual’ sense of who I am which for me is part of an ongoing search for what is actually/inherently true and good within me and within others in the widest sense possible.
The truth is that sometimes being part of the fellowship works and sometimes it doesn’t. That is the reality right now for me.
It’s true that if I work the steps it can be more helpful; what helped me the most in the program was the acceptance I felt from others and which I’ve been able to internalise. At the same time though, I found acceptance through years of therapy and in other helping places. What hasn’t helped is the lack of acceptance and or judgement from younger ‘souls’; although having said that if I myself am wise enough I can use even that as a mirror to see myself more clearly.
For example; I have been in meetings where there was a sense of claustrophobia where people almost wanted to take ‘ownership’ of you (perhaps because some people are heavily identified with the sponsorship role and try to control others and in particular newcomers and in doing this they can come across as quite judgemental which is just their own insecurity projected on to others).
At the time this freaked me out, and I often left those kind of meetings. But for those who stay it can be like finding a new family for the first time, they will probably and eventually feel smothered or overwhelmned by that kind of co-dependent relationship and will seek their freedom elsewhere. However, what I’ve learned from this particular dynamic is that it’s useful to have a personal identity in a group, with a sense of our own inner authority so that we don’t consciously or unconsciously seek it elsewhere or attract others willing to play certain roles. The sad truth is though that it is that precise lack of a strong and healthy identity that shapes the addict and draws us to the fellowships; for some if not most of us AA or NA or OA or any of the programs might be our first experience of ‘family’ and for some of us it can be a better family than our biological ones. Because of these dynamics some of us will leave the fellowship completely, never to return and others will look for the ‘perfect’ meeting – I did the latter for a while.
On this note; I found more recovery in bigger cities (more openness in these groups) than I did/do in smaller towns and villages. Some groups can be very healing and others quite damaging. It all comes down to where we are at in our heads……..it’s a long long learning process for many of us.
These days I take the love, the wisdom and compassion from wherever and from whoever it’s offered. I don’t have to limit myself to one particular spring.
Why would we limit that outpouring available from so many in the world?
I have recently admitted to having a drinking problem. I’ve tried unsuccessfully to quit on my own for several months, and find I am in need of some form of support program. I can’t afford an inpatient program and the thought of attending AA meetings leaves me cold.
My main problem with the 12 step philosophy, like many of you have mentioned, is the submission of one’s will and even identity. The program as I understand it asks that you turn over any personal responsibility and individuality to a nameless, faceless thing in the sky. You’re an addict, you’re weak, you’re powerless, you have a disease and can’t help yourself, only God can save you.
I believe in a higher power, but my Higher Power asks that I maintain responsibility and accountability for my actions. My Higher Power asks that I empower myself to take the steps I need to take to become healthy and whole.
I wonder if abstinence is really the only way. I’m hoping to become a little more moderate in my drinking….but I have accepted that it may not be possible for me. If I must abstain, then I’ll have to learn how to do that.
I’d rather find a program that helps uncover the reasons behind the addiction and substitute something healthier and more constructive.
Nowhere was I told that I had to hand over responsibility to a higher power. I am responsible, I have to put the work to solve my problems but the result is not up to me. This is simple logic, is it not? I don’t believe that 12 step meetings tell a person that they are not responsible for their problems.
I have been sober for 7 months with the help of AA. However I am beginning to realise that AA is not the only way to recover from alcoholism, but that it can be a useful starting point. I do not believe in the learned helplessness that step 1 calls for; my drinking was a choice and not a disease. My recovery is due to my own efforts, albeit with the help of community spirit that AA fosters. I have met some wonderful people who are altruistic and others who are downright mean and nasty – despite being 20 years or more sober and thinly veiled, narrow minded AA fanatics. Some meetings are inspiring, others are less so, a bit like life really.
I believe that self empowerment through exercise and good nutrition / supplements provides a stable platform for recovery. Most alcoholics have damaged body/brain chemistry that calls for therapeutic doses of vitamin C, Niacin.Thiamine and amino acid Glutamine. Clinical trials of these nutritional based treatments for treating the underlying causes of behaviour abnormalities report success rates of 80% compared to AA 5% success rate – similar to placebo effect. I think the real reason why AA works is because of the networking / group support thing – you can call someone who understands when you’re having a tough time, because theyve gone through the same thing. Its a human urge to want to belong. One positive thing about meetings I will say is that they can be fun sometimes, yes fun – at least the ones I go to usually have a few characters who can tell a good yarn and lace them with humour. Its cheaper than going to the comedy club and sometimes just as entertaining.
But who wants to be addicted to AA meetings for the rest of their lives. I certainly dont !. The rooms are full of fear mongers who will tell you that this is a requirement for continued sobriety. The cultish chantings and goofy superstitious beliefs and confessing of sins/guilt doesnt sit well either.
I do believe there is benefit to the recovering alcoholic from some sort of spiritual programme however, I personally think meditation or simply visiting an empty church has provided more serenity and peace of mind than AA meetings. I think most people can instinctively distinguish between a bona fide spiritual person when they meet one, and a charlatan banded about as such – and there are plenty of those self righteous types in AA.
So my experience has been that AA can be a good place to start, but its not neccessarily the only game in town as they would have us believe. Its 5% success rate is dismal and most recovering alcoholics, recover on their own anyway. Get a good exercise programme, healthy diet, take therapeutic doses of specific supplements and some kind of inner wellness programme (there are sooooo many to chose from !!!) and you will, most certainly improve the odds of recovery from alcoholism than just by attending AA meetings alone.
Hi All
I have no personal axe to grind one way or another about AA, but there are some opinions posted here regarding aspects of AA that need to be refuted.
The obvious one is the concept of powerless and how that relates to the individual. It seems that an interpretation is being made by people here that powerlessness equates to irresponsibilty. I’m at a loss as to how this conclusion has been reached by people, some of whom are learned and should know better.
For the record, AA members who follow the suggested steps are only required to acknowledge powerlessness over alcohol. That’s all, just alcohol. And in that context it is for alcoholics of a type that have reached that point: those that have tried every which way to stop, but, of their own volition, cannot.
The second misunderstanding concerns handing over personal responsibility to a higher power. Please, for those of you that believe this, either reference the appropriate section in AA literature, or stay quiet, because it’s simply not true. In fact, for those that chose to take the 12 steps the opposite is true and personal responsibility very much evident. Indeed it is asked of those who undertake the steps to make amends for past irresponsible behaviours.
The ‘handing over’ to a higher power, simply refers to availing oneself to guidance and healing from a higher source by practicing the rest of the steps. In a nutshell: listing ones wrongdoings; admitting those wrongdoings; putting things right with those one has wronged; and helping others. Hardly a recipe for irresponsible people, but there you are. That’s AA. What people who go to AA meetings practice is another matter and would need to be taken up with them personally.
The praying and God focus of AA works…until it doesn’t! Then the victim says “WHAT???” It also is preposterous that if one leaves the group they will surely die.
It is also preposterous that an entire industry of thieves gets rich on poor people who don’t know any better.
The 12steps are fine for who they’re fine for…but they shouldn’t tell people there is no other way. AND that is exactly what they do in there. And 99% of the time those peer counselors (sponsors) are still in lunacy themselves and they’re telling others how to live. It’s ridiculous. Plus it is a religious program and the state should have NO authority to sentence anyone to meetings nor an employer to threaten someone with dismissal unless they go there. There are many other ways and there are thousands of sane and sober people out there who got well without the dogma of AA and their slogan babbling mindlessness.
We are anonymous as we only give our first names in meetings. Secondly, AA is not a cult. I was once in Scientology, which worships it’s founder, promises great wealth, high IQ, astral travel, and knowledge of previous life times. Scientology also abuses its dissidents and scams worse than spam. AA does none of these things.
Hi every one. I have just come out of treatment a week ago. They made me do the first 3 steps. At first I thought it was helping but when I got to the 2nd step I realized I was only writing what they wanted to hear. I also realized how stupid it was. I had a long discussion with my councilor which left him very confussed but after that i knew for sure that the 12 steps were just religous mumbo jumbo. I mean he goes to me “you must have belief in a higher power in order for it to work. This belief will only come after you experience it”. I’m a sceptical person and I don’t believe in god to start off with. So how can I believe in some thing I can’t experiance and if I can’t believe in it I can’t experiance it. Is it me or is there some thing wrong with that logic.
Folks this is the 21st century, in this day and age of science how can we be looking at the sky for some entity to rescue us and then turn our lives over to it. There is nothing there, its all in our head. I have found a very good program called Rational Recovery, look it up. It makes so much sense and places the responsabiliy of our problem in our hands. They have a very rational explanation for addiction which makes sense. As I kept working on the steps I started to have this feeling of impending doom. It didn’t make any sense to me and I started to realize that 12 steps is not going to work. Actually the problem is very simple and so is the solution. We tend to over complicate things.
Naturally, since our problem seems to be so huge how can the solution be so simple. Like millions of other self recovered addicts we can recover for good too. And for all the AA guys they are not a hand full there are millions. Since they haven’t been to treatment centers and haven’t been to meetings they don’t get counted. In one of the posts above it says that only 5% are sobber after one year. This is true. Only 50% after 3 months. Of all the people abstinent in America only 40% are from 12 step groups while 60% are self recovered without any meeting or treatment. These are figures given by AA them selves. Look them up your selves. You know what they will tell you in treatment centers. If the the steps work, which they don’t in most cases, well and good, if their treatment doesn’t work and they fail to get through to you “it is a baffling disease”. What a load of BS. Don’t fall for it. It does more harm than good. Good luck with your recovery and remember if you have quit and are actually making an effort to do some thing about it you have made it. Believe in you’re self. don’t let anyone tell you anything else.
Personally with age I have had plenty of time to look into alcoholism on a personal level. I have had 6 Years of experience of the 12 step programme, have sponsored, which I now regret, and have introduced people into a so called fellowship who have then either been demoralised, stripped of personal dignity and I’ve even seen what I would consider systematic abuse of human rights.
But that’s Ok to several different sponsored groups within the fellowship. I Guess after Time, we grow up and start to realise, that if you really are powerless as you are brain washed into thinking. Then do you have the power over breathing, eating, treating people with respect? And not telling them that whatever you try to do in life your doomed!
The reality is that I actually had more sobriety time “Sobriety” in the meaning of sense of seriousness And “sobriety” in the sense of not drinking. without a so called 12 step program!
hm, im not sure at all why everyone is trashing aa so much. i believe firmly in God, but even if you dont follow the steps, at least you are surrounding yourself with people who suffer with the same problem that you do. you can talk to them, become friends with them, and you have a huge problem in your lives.. the same problem. im not to familiar with the steps, but i have attended a few meetings, and i enjoyed it.i am very open about my problem, sometimes to open. to the point where when i end up being at a bar after i talked to someone about my drinking problem, and then i cant enjoy my drink because im worried about them looking and thinking, ” why are you drinking?”.
anyway, dont be hard on aa. kudzu does work well though. HOWEVER, i felt that it took away the high/euphoria/happy feeling that alcohol gives you, for me its in the beginning of drinking.. first hour or two moreso. but i felt the kudzu took that way. anyone else? tell me about your experiences.
What a great day it will be when people “in recovery” and in the recovery field learn the real history of early A.A. and the readily available precepts from that program that are still available today. Reliance on the Creator for help, strength, guidance, forgiveness, and victory was and is and will be a reliable way to cure and a new life. Abstaining is a tested and true way of eliminating temptation. Can the smoker, gambler, sexual predator, criminal, or someone suffering from life-controlling problems gain anything by “just a little” of the former palliative? If, as A.A. cofounder Dr. Bob said so often, the program is about “love and service,” is there any difficulty in finding those principles and guides in the Bible and its Book of James, the sermon on the mount, and 1 Corinthians 13 that were considered absolutely essential? Is it difficult to steer clear of the idolatry–the powerless idolatry–that comes from turning one’s life over to the care of an higher power that is called a rock, a chair, a light bulb, the Great Pumpkin, a Coke bottle, or the “group” or even “good orderly direction?” Has anyone found a replacement for the focus on helping others to get well? What can be learned from Alcoholics Anonymous is its own early history, roots, and successes. And then deciding whether these are available today and are an option worth pursuing. I have found the answer to be “yes” in both cases. God Bless, Dick B.
i agree dick, however i havent had the motivation for stopping completely yet.. but i agree with ya!
I’m a recovered alcoholic/addict who grew up in AA. I am also a professional in the field of addiction that believes in and uses all other modalities and methods of treatment for myself and for others. I see the literature you have in your web site is using all the psycho-social theories and methods of modern psychology including the Marlatt Gordon Relapse prevention dissertations. Very good i applaud you as i too look for new cutting edge philosophies to assist others and myself. I am somewhat disappointed in this page you have written what appears to bash AA 12 step programming. Your site seemed so professional and wise, but when i came upon your referral to 12 step programs it seems as though you are using your own opinion based on biased reasoning and facts. I too have read all the literature that has been complied to examine AA 12 Step validity. I agree with most critics who point out that it may be cultish, is not governed by professional licensed people and may be harmful, is god directed or emphasized and therefore one sided, however there is another way to look at the 12 step program in an informed unbiased fashion.
My personal story/belief… i am an ex con who spent a lot of time in prisons, black out alcoholic type….i didnt care for the “this is a spiritual program ” language when i attended AA (i do agree that legally no one should be mandated to attend AA)…techno data from @ 2000 AA New York office stated 25 % of AA people had 5 years of sobriety and the rest did not…not very good odds…however… i personally owe my life to AA, whether it was the opiate of the masses in a religious way or Herd Animal instinct, it is in every sense of the word a SELF HELP GROUP and should be presented as one. My friends in AA are of all races, religions, some atheist, some agnostic,but more importantly for me it is made up of others…prior to treatment and AA i was cut off from myself, others and any concept of talking or meditating on a higher power. I learned to trust others in AA when i barely trusted myself. The talk of surrender or powerlessness is just that, AA people use it to present models of thinking and behavior just as the cognitive behavioural and stages of change models present abstract structure to abstract concepts so that we humans can grasp the scheme of things.
If you go ask most AA people if they truly considered themselves powerless from making decisions to help themselves, im sure the answer would be NO. The 12 steps alone , meetings alone and a sponsor alone do not work…i believe you have to use AA in a cultish fashion and that is LIVE the AA program..that may be to indulgent or time consuming in this fast moving techno world. Yet, i believe (consider myself well versed in all the modern psychological , rational emotive, psycho social approaches) that all of the newest methods and approaches are practised and used when one lives the AA program. Everything from Self efficacy(Marlatts relapse prevention theories belief in self and urge cues and replacement, stress and high risk internal and external trigger management, lifestyle balance), Cognitive behavioral thought /feeling and behavior recognition and positive alternative re-framing,…it’s all in the program and further more no one else can take care of me but me, i’m the one that brings myself to meetings, i’m the one who uses the steps to re-frame my thinking, i’m the one who decides if religious deity are used to guide me or reason to use just right thinking or moral judgement will be used. The steps and those AA people are but a guide.
Can your approach to assisting individuals work better? Faster? Time will tell, ultimately if someone comes to recovery and maintains recovery they will likely pass through all the experiences of human growth to know that my first year of recovery was not as good as the second or the third or the next five years were not as good as the next five years…there is a lot to learn along the way. im sure your trying to help people learn without stumbling into a bees hive of frugality, or does insisting the total anonymity of someone on your web site suggest your true intentions. I have been to AA all over the states an i assure you im quite anonymous and i have a family that is my first family full of smiling well balanced friends that would give me the shirt off their back. Yes they are in my cult, i have many cults: all my musician friends and the salons we play in, my native friends where i dance in the circle with the people, the grandmas an grandpas and little peoples in a church, should i decide to attend, my professional pals, etc.
I do respect your opinion to maintain the clients rights of privacy, anonymity, client centred choice, but dont submit to the notion that all AA people are powerless and brainwashed. Its a stepping stone from a lonely sad place to a bright opportunity for some. I’m sure not all who tread in the AA path will benefit and some may be used (because mankind is like that sometimes) Hopefully your intentions to help others and present them with the best practices and fair referrals will reward you and them.
mike
I think that what you have to realise is that alcoholism is a killer. People go to AA meetings as a last resort because they don’t know know how to live a life without alcohol. I was 19 when I first went to AA meetings and I hated it. But that is because I wasn’t ready to stop drinking. It took me a few years to wise up and realise I had to do the steps to stay sober and clear out the wreckage of my past. I believe that that was my path and I had to be beaten into submission.
I think to advise an alcoholic that they may be able to drink safely is completely irresponsible. If the person is a real alcoholic then there is no chance that they will ever drink like one of the earth people. Alcohol is a progressive ilness that will only ever get worse, you should be advising alcoholics that they need to acquire an attitude of acceptance rather than giving them false hope of a happy drinking life.
I nearly went to AA, but decided not to as I don’t necessarily fit the profile of what I consider to be a full-blown alcoholic, as I can still stop drinking, don’t have blackouts, but I do still have issues as I drink most days and am drinking more at weekends. I wasn’t sure if I’d fit in, but perhaps I’ll change my mind. I’ve had a lot of counselling for other issues, and I think it would be really good to be in an environment where you meet others dealing with the same issues you are, one-on-one therapy feels a bit lonely to me at times, despite the help it’s given me.
My not going definitely had nothing to do with the mention of God, or handing my life over. I’m not at all religious but I think the literature makes it clear this isn’t a religious organisation, and that God can be taken to mean a higher power. I also thought that when they talk about “handing over your life” it’s not about losing personal responsibility, it’s about letting go of what you can’t change, trying to gain serenity.
In my experience, some of those with drink problems (and I’m talking about myself here) come from families where there is a lot of control, manipulation and co-dependency going on. You do need to take personal responsibility (and I think AA does say this in other steps), but you need to stop going crazy over the smaller things, and learn to accept yourself and certain situations.