Kudzu as a treatment for alcoholism
You’ve made the decision to cut down on your drinking. At this point, you may be wondering “is there anything that I can take that could help me with my cravings?”
Currently a few drugs are popular for the treatment of alcoholism – Naltrexone, Acamprosate, and Disulfiram. None are always effective or appropriate.
Common side effects include diarrhoea, dyspepsia (indigestion), headache, nausea and vomiting, rash, and itching. More severe side effects have been associated with these drugs which cause suspicion as to whether they are doing more harm than good.
The pharmaceutical industry has little to offer for keeping alcoholics sober. Herbal medicines, on the other hand, have shown more promising and dramatic results. However, for profiteering reasons, it is not likely that drug companies or your doctor will provide herbal alternatives.
The herb Kudzu can cut consumption of alcohol in half perfectly safely without the side effects of drugs. It has been used to reduce drinking in China since 600 A.D. Scientists have found the herb to be effective in reducing alcohol intake in rats.
Recently, studies have shown evidence that Kudzu can reduce drinking in humans. Essentially, kudzu increases blood alcohol concentration so that people need less alcohol to feel its effects. People feel satisfied on fewer drinks.
So, where can you find some? David Lee, a chemist on the McLean Hospital research team did assays on a variety of kudzu herb extracts from stores and websites and found that many of these products contained less than 1 percent of active kudzu, and thus were ineffective. Higher concentrations are needed – around 30-40 percent of one of Kudzu’s active ingredients (puerarin) is advised. Please be aware that the Kudzu capsules available in Holland & Barrett are only 7%. The tincture they sell is of course alcohol based (all tinctures are), at roughly 60% alcohol.
We’ve reviewed a number of online Kudzu suppliers, and this is the best we could find:
Or read some more information about Kudzu.
Alternatively you can try Liv.52 – a herbal supplement proven to protect the liver from the damaging effects of alcohol. It assists in the process of detoxification also, in that it speeds up the elimination of acetaldehyde (which means your hangovers won’t be quite so nasty).
Katie!!! Big Hug and Congrats! It is much easier after day 3 and by day 5 it is really much better then it is all psychological not physiological. I am sure you can do it and was unaware you started! So hugs and luck!
Annie of course you are welcome! We are all on this “titanic” together! I am going to say something that is very controversial but I am more and more becoming a convert THOUGH I do not speak YET from first hand experience—but have you tried taking Naltrexone WHILE drinking NOT for abstaining? Do google the “Sinclair Method” I am becoming a staunch believer in it since abstinence seems to me to be a failed endeavor.
I know there is so much other stuff involved in the issue of alcohol abuse and for some it is mere behavioural malfunctions whilst for some of us it is a chemical malfunction and for us a chemical intervention (like naltrexone) is the only solution IF it works.
By the way–DO NOT let anyone talk you into using Naltrexone to quit or to lessen cravings, it is not the purpose of Naltrexone. Naltrexone NEEDS you to drink in order to work! This is contrary to everything everyone has said in the mainstream medical community.
I too have been like you and quit a thousand times, changed when I drink, how I drink, what I drink etc. TO NO AVAIL! I have been abstinent now almsot three months BUT I do not intend this to last forever not because it would not be great, but because I am a realist. So in the meantime I will find whatever method I can to help me to never lose control again!
Good luck Annie and Congrats Katie!
Hi All-
In keeping with being honest I have something to report that in my opinion is a very good thing. I drank. I had always planned on trying Naltrexone at some point in the manner it is used with the Sinclair Method and I came into a position where I had an opportunity to drink and decided it was time. Because this is a forum where posting has been sporadic I will say that I did turn to another forum whose goal is harm reduction and used them to let them know what I was planning and also told a good friend to help me if I were to need it.
I took a Naltrexone in the morning prior to having a breakfast that was to include bucksfizzes (mimosas in USA) and I can tell you of all drunks NOTHING gets me worse than Champagne.
Drink one felt good. I was buzzed but did not get my “rush” which is my kiss of death leading me to days of benders or at best a day of drinking until I pass out. I was not perfect. The “behavioural abuse” was still present but I will explain. The physical need was not.
One drink felt good. Good as in the same way I remember all the years ago when I took a drink and then could take or leave the next. Naturally curious I took the next and the next. I did NOT get that “feeling” at all. In fact after a few I was sick of drinking, nauseous and had a headache. I definitely had a buzz after a couple but more than that were just habit and made me eventually say—no more. That is a first for me.
I was so nauseous that I really could not fathom drinking more. I also was hungry after a few drinks which is opposite what I usually feel which is a desire to drink and no desire to eat. My headache I can only assume is what a normal drinker feels after one too many. I dumped alcohol out yesterday–yes dumped down the drain. It was NOT the abstinence time that caused this as all other abstinence times I would be off and running. It was a real different experience.
I do not have a desire to drink again. I know I will be able to in a drinking situation along with my Naltrexone but to sip a drink and slowly feel buzzed was amazing. I was able to do most of my daily chores though I got very tired and had to nap at one point (after drinking that is). This too is something non-alcohol abusers experience.
When I say the behaviour is there, what I mean is that I still desired to keep going out of force of habit but keep going meant that a half bottle lasted me until late afternoon at which point it was flat and nasty and I just was sick from the thought of having more.
I do not regret this because I had to know. What I do know is I now want to work within this field and help to spread the word and hope of Naltrexone. If this was not a fluke, and I do not believe it was, then for many of us this is a godsend. I was hesitant to do it for a few reasons, one of which was I was a afraid to go back to where I was. The other was that I felt like I was letting myself and others down. BUT abstinence was never my main goal. A way out was.
The side effects are NOT pleasant but I do not think they are as much side effects of Naltrexone as they are side effects of normal drinking. I did not get nausea or headaches until I drank. The nausea was unbearable and at one point after three drinks I was hugging the toilet ready to puke. (This I think many normal drinkers do). The headache much the same. I did get some weird tingling in my hands which I have yet to find a listing for as a symptom but assume it is a side effect as well.
I can honestly say I have no more desire to drink now at all. I do have a deisre to drink when it is appropriate but then I will have my Naltrexone with me and I will likely be made fun of for my “low tolerance”. The thought of having shots, and drinks and shots and drinks makes me ill when I think how it felt yesterday.
My opinion though is this—Naltrexone works for those of us who are chemically altered. It stops the rush. It does NOT stop the behavior. It lets me remain level headed as I drink and stay in control. I cannot be happier to have found it and to have researched it and gone against the reason it is prescribed in USA/Europe. The big mistake is that Naltrexone DOES NOT stop craving. It does stop the rush when one drinks on it.
I am also hangover free and feel great today! If someone asked me for drinks tonight I would not hesitate but I would likely not drink. If it were a Friday and a bottle of wine was involved, I may well take a Naltrexone and drink a couple glasses. Time will tell if this is lasts but I cannot see it waning because it really stopped me from wanting more immediately. For anyone who cannot stop, consider this because I was personally so doubtful that I was afraid that for sure I would end up with massive quantities and back where I was. I was also afraid that like with all other false hopes—I would merely “drink through it” and end up back where I started.
I REALLY never expected it to work. I expected, as I have always been, to be an exception to the rule on this as well. I was certain I would be one of the 10% it does NOTHING for!
Hope all of you are great and I am pleased to announce my new finding!
PS BY the way—when I wrote my above post I had not yet decided to take the Naltrexone and try. It is coincidental that I mentioned it or perhaps Freudian. It all came up very suddenly.
hi
haven’t posted much as i have been trying to keep body and soul together.. I have had a dreadful bout of IBS, which is probably due to the shock of facing the world not numb. Well it is day six sort of but on day two I found a little bit of wine in a glass two glugs to be precise and couldn’t bring myself to throw them (how sad) away so took them with my librium at bed time, which is naughty so I suppose really clean, four days. God its hard, I remember somebody saying they felt like having a drink to reward themselves for being so good………..me too!!!!
I went to the resturant on Sunday lunch time and got really twitchy and managed to focus on a spot above peoples heads so i did not see the glasses of wine on the tables, it is just hard.
After reading the above post I feel like rushing out and buying Naltrexone and getting back on the booze but I guess it is not a good idea yet, so I will plod on.
FH you talk about the ‘spencer method’ can you explain what this is in a nutshell as I am too twitchy to read a book just yet. Glad you have had a good experience then there could be light at the end of the tunnel. But just about everything makes me feel sick so I am not so sure it would work for me. It would end up on the shelf with all the Kudzu stuff that I bought.
what other sites do you go on? it seems a bit dead here at the moment.
hope everybody is doing Ok
love and hugs
katie
Hi Katie-
It is actually the “Sinclair Method” named for an American man who moved to Finland and did research. Instead of using Naltrexone to stop cravings—which it just does not do, he used it to give to active drinkers.
Two things happened, firstly people no longer got that “rush” which I always have had but never could put words to until I read about it in his studies. Suddenly I said–wow that is me.
The theory is not so honed as I think he could have done it because he does have a 10% failure rate (compared to abstinence having a 5% success rate that is amazing).
In theory it takes away the “reward” us alkies get from drinking. I attribute the 10% failure rate to the non-alcoholic “abusers”. Obviously if you are not making an opiate in your brain their is nothing to stop so for them it is 100% behavior.
For me it was scary but I had to do it. I was lucky enough to call a woman that runs a programme for this and she told me the nausea and headache was from having too high a dose.
As it was an election night here I actually went to a dinner and took a Naltrexone and ended up drinking a HALF glass of wine. This is NOT willpower I usually would drink bottles. I just have no desire.
It is a rather amazing method and you do not NEED to abstain but I would recommend it just to cleanse your body.
You can get the book on it on Amazon for like 5 quid it is called “The Cure For Alcoholism” by Roy Eskapa (I think) and David Sinclair–the one who founded it.
My other group is not a great one as they are hell bent on it being ONLY a behavior but when I tried it I needed to know I had people there and as you know this site is not so active so I rather used the group to just have some insurance.
Katie hang in and you will be fine!!!!
Hugs!
hey guys! Long time no type.. hehe.. i just got a laptop but am actually not on it right now. tomorrow ill type again. im on day 2 af, as i just hate alcohol and what it does to you. im still convinced that if i wasnt with this guy, after that month off i could have gone back to just going out to bars twice a week with friends and drinking, and not the everyday drinking which i do now. my bf is drinking, i just have to drink also. like we went out on friday night and got drunk, out late. the next day i didnt have the desire to drink, but he wanted to, so then i m like oh might as well.. if i wasnt with him id fight it and hang out with my good friend who doesnt drink hardly at all. part of my ocd feeling it even feels like a little. broke up with him two days ago, but guess what? left something at his house. so had to come back. so here now, but hes sleeping. starting tomorrow ill be typin everyday with ya guys though. i hope everyone is well. Making this short bc im on his mothers computer at two am. Night guys!
oh and will def write more tomorrow, but hi to the new people, ollie , patricia, whoever else i missed.. kat let me know how your doing, im skimming so many posts i missed so its hard to catch up! cant wait to start writing daily with my new laptop. im gonna need it.. just wanted to say also about that, “what the heck do you DO at night?” i KNOW that feeling! and the times i wanted to not drink that nihgt, i would purposely do something to keep myself busy such as work or visit my sick friend so i could go home and just go to bed. it takes a few weeks of getting it out of your system i remember where i wasnt obsessing over alc like that… hopelss your doing great!!!! i also agree us alcoholics are more sensitive and empathetic and understanding.. that explains me to a tee. i havent even finished reading the posts yet , talk to u guys tomm
Completely agree with what hopeless says here–”From experience I can say this–as daunting as quitting is the best part of it is that instead of sitting day after day feeling like things are crap, you do have about a week of crap to go through and on the other side things start to look up after a week and NO matter what you are dealing with they start to get better and better after the week is up. Not so much that they improve, but they become more manageable and you start to be able to deal with things. ”
i have the same feelings… things get easier after a week and suddenly your not obsessing or hurting as much about the problems.. because your neurotransmitters start working more properly.
HI dairy and Kat, like i said.. talk to u guys all tomorrow, so much catchin up.
hi jen
welcome back i am really glad that you will be posting again as I am feeling the need to talk to, well everybody, but especially somebody that is starting out on the journey:-)
sort of on day six af i did have a glass last night and feel really annoyed with myself. The day before i almost started to feel normal in that i went to bed without Librium or alchohol and slept eight hours and got up not feeling like i had been wacked on the head by something the night before. Which is how I feel with both alchohol and librium
Why did i drink? well i can not think of one good reason. It is at the moment a compulsion, like some sexy siren beckoning me into the wine shop door. My mind goes blank my brain goes into neutral and i sleep walk to the booze. That is really stupid because I am not withdrawing or even feeling that bad, it is just a bloody stupid habit.
anyhow glad you are back jen, wish everybody else would come and visit also
love and hugs
katie
hhow u doin hopeless? i finished reading your posts last night , wasnt aware you started experimenting with naltrexedone and let me ask you, how often are you taking it? just curious, its making me think maybe ill try it as well at some point seoon. right now im doing AF. even if i were to try the naltrexone i want at least a month off. so let me ask u one other thing, if u dont feel that good feeling what is the point of even drinking a glass of wine? do u like the taste? actually i think u wrote u still liked the way it felt. so let me know how often u are taking it.
hey kat, yeah, well for me right now, i feel much much better mentally then i have in awhile, since ive been drinking everynight pretty much for awhile! so after a few days i always feel just great. last time this good feeling didnt last thought, after a few weeks i was up and down, but still not mentally as bad as when im drinking. let me just say that this is bc i have mild depression for sure. right now i feel as if i dont even have mild depression, its how good i feel. three days ago i would consider myself moderately depressed, at some points severely. I seem to be more effected than many as far as my depression goes with substances such as alcohol or recreational drugs ive taken.
so but besides feeling good mentally, the first few days are very hard for me too. the only reason its easier is bc i tgake my antabuse, my savior. the first two days at times in the past when i stopped were hellish. i OBSESSEd over alcohol and my depression was bad since i always feel depressed for two days after the drinking everynight. nhow its day three and i feel pretty good. but i feel for u.. im planning on doing what hopeless is doing, or something. MAYBE u should consider naltrex yourself. most seem to be succesful if they do what hopless does and take a period of time off. its necessary in my mind to take that break of alc. it takes three weeks for the effects of alcohol to get out of your brain, two pyschiatrists told me. well im hear now so let me know how things go. im surprised u stopped at one-at least u did that!
Ollie you sound similar to me in many ways as far as alc goes. Dairy , glad to see your back. talk to u tomorrow guys
i meant most are successful with Naltrex if they take that period off of alcohol, not most are successful if they take a period off of alcohol and starting drinking again.. NOOO! def not..
hi
well glad you are feeling ok with stopping jen. stopping at one glass was less of a choice but more to do with the size of bottle i could stuff down the back of my trousers to sneak in. If I had bigger trousers or i was less of a ‘lard arse’ I may well have managed to get two 750cl bottles down my trousers, but as it was I was going blue in the face with just a 250cl bottle:-)
However, now I am glad that it was only one as I managed to sleep last night with no medication and no drink which compaired to sleeping a few hours waking up and needing to drink again to get back to sleep and feeling like i had been in a car crash for the first three to four hours after waking is feeling pretty good…………but still I want to drink. I just cant get my head around why I have a craving to make myself feel like shight, almost feel schizophrenic. There is the rational me seeing all the positive effects of stopping and the demented demon that is saying go on, other people drink, it is 6pm, wouldn’t it taste nice etc.
anyway I am sure everybody has to fight these type of feeling to a degree when they stop, if we only looked at the postive i guess we wouldn’t be here and struggling with quitting.
The thought that I am not domed to a life with AA and that I may one day drink like a ‘lady ‘ with Naltrexone is something more managable to work towards. I think if i thought I would never drink again I would throw the towel in right now, which is really sad, dont like being an alchi
anyway take care all of you
big hugs
katie
Have been reading this site with interest. I have just admitted I have a problem with alcohol.
Annie your post of 31/10/08 really struck a chord with me I can really identify with you.
I am just embarking on giving up alcohol and would love to join your postings
Hi Betty and welcome. Jen Welocme back!
Katie—we are sick and do not hate yourself! The bottom line is that until we clean it out of our bodies the compulsion exists. If I did not take Naltrexone when I drank I can guarantee days of drinking would have ensued. It is not that I want to, it is that when I start I have to.
I have concluded that we are all more or less in a chronic state of depression and alcohol somehow lifts us to a level normal people live daily. Naltrxone prevents the rush which in turn lets us drink like anyone else.
Since you have problems even with the librium I really do suggest Naltrexone. You can continue to drink and eventually will stop because it just won’t give you the high you seek.
In all honesty I have been scared because now that I “tried” my mind already started the “games”. I started bargaining with myself–like maybe I can drink without Naltrexone and then take it to stop etc. What I know though is I do not want to be where I was. The headaches, vomitting only to wipe off my face and grab another drink. Letting my home and life go. It is an easy hole to fall into. I can still remember every drink and thinking—I am going to have an aneurysm or heart attack and then my family is going to come see what state my home is in with bottles by the dozens all over. I am still scared of that if I were ever to decide to play with the Naltrexone.
Most reading I have done on it indicates that is exactly what people do. They like it at first then eventually “want” the high so stop and go back to the uncontrolled drinking.
Betty congratulations on your realisation. It is a HUGE step. We hate to label ourselves and admitting we have a problem is awful. For years I just considred myself “a party girl”. All the bad choices, my two nights in jail for drink driving, etc were just because I was “naughty” BUT they were not, they were because I am sick. I am sure by now my reasons for ultimately stopping are long since on another page but in a nutshell I was dating a guy who told me he did not want to see me because my drinking scared him. I went on a bender for a week. I have LOVELY dogs and completely neglected them just throwing food their way a couple times a day and letting them crap all over my flat. I drank for a week straight and went out to a real “alkie” bar where the people are yellow and start drinking at 8 am and I drank until I did not know my name. Some French guy asked if I rememberd him, claimed we had sex. I said yes though I did not. I came home and was so gone I passed out. WHETHER we had sex is still a question I have never answered and he was not a pleasant looking bloke (cute but unhealthy looking). Next morning my handbag was in another room, credit cards gone, driving license gone, I was stupid enough to think it happened when I was “dancing”. BUT then I realised my laptop case, my ipod, my digital cam were also gone. I was so passed out he managed to rob me blind.
This is NOT a pleasant disease. I hate it and wish I could just cure it. The Naltrexone is great but compliance is an issue. I am currently looking for a doctor that will give me the injection—it lasts a month and you have no choice. I know I will comply either way but just for safety sake the shot sounds good.
Katie hon, you are ok and an ok person. You will be ok and I send a hug to you because you sound like you really need one!
X to ALL
Thank you for the welcome. I made my mind up last night that I would go to the pub and meet my friends, stay an hour and drink slimline tonic. What actually happened is what normally happens, I stayed 3 hrs, got blinding drunk and cannot remember coming home, having a sarnie and going to bed.
Woke up this morning and my resolve is now strong. I am going to come off the dreaded alcohol.
I wish I knew why I drank, I think if I understood why I could stop.
Alcohol is my addiction at the moment, from reading the postings I see that other people have been addicted to food and relationships/sex. I have gone from sex to food to alcohol.
I wish I could take something and my addiction would go away.
Desterate
hi everyone, i just read some of the posts. i came across this site today as i am looking for help to stop drinking.its been playing on my mind since a few weeks now. i have got a problem and i want it to stop. since getting divorced a year and half ago my drinking has become more and more. i am now at a stage where i feel quilty for drinking and hide the cans so no one can see how much i drunk.
when i decided to get divorced ( my ex was once again violent towards me) i felt happy relieved , but after a few month i relised how much i have lost. i have lost the only family i had in uk. my family lives in germany and i had no real support from them to get through the divorce.every other week i had to put up with nasty rows with the ex. all our friends choosen his side and it has left me feel alone and isolated. i have got a wonderful friend who is always there for me and trys her best to help me, but she has to many problems of herselfe and i feel guilty loading my probs onto her.
last night i went to a party where my kids where and the ex. it was one of those bonfire night parties where i always was invited to. the host one of ” our friends” has told me in past that we always be friends and he and his family always there for me.last night at the party it was a different story.i knew i shouldnt have gone . him and his wive made it quiet clear how disgusted there are with me being there. it all ended in tears and being drunk and i rushed off home after an hour.
today i managed to go to work, but as soon as i got home i cried for hours.i know that its my drinking and that i need help, but not sure how and where to start
at the moment i feel nothing matters anymore, my kids, my home, my lovely dogs and me
i wish i could wake up in the morning and be normal, dont feel like crying , dont feel as if i am worthless and i dont want to feel scared anymore that i drink myselfe to death.
Hey betty, welcome. Im on day six with antabuse. Since it is Saturday night,. you can imagine with the weekend ive been really wanting to drink. everyones going out, went out to eat today and couldnt have my normal beers with food at applebees. also very upset bc i want to use this time to lose weight and i stayed eating well but not well enough obviousally the whole week, and not a pound lost, so i just went and pigged out on ice cream and cookies after a big dinner. at least it stopped there-i used to for sure have binge eating disorder before alcohl came along.. an addiction to food really. wouldnt stop!! i finally got it under control. mainly when i STOPPEd dieting the binging slowly stopped, and with the help of weight watchers. i m no where near overweight, in fact underweight, but i yearn to be my little size 0 that i used to be before the alcohol got out of control. its so hard though, im having a tough time right now. weekdays arent so bad. how much do you usually drink during the week and weekend? lately its been a 750ml bottle of wine usually on weekdays and much more on weekends when i end up out at bars. on average. sometimes i go out on weekdyas as well and have terrible nights. when i stay home withj a bottle of wine im usually ok and nothing bad happens. i never had a sex addiction, but a cocaine addiction, and everytime i stop the alcohol for a period of time, guess what happens? SPENDING MONEY ADDICTION! or , shopping addiction in otherwords. my bfs here drinking his beers as we watch tv, but im in a pretty bad mood and down, cant really focus on movies right now. i try to picture, it could be worse. i could be in jail for something, like drunk driving or something i didnt intend on doing to hurt someone. maybe we shouldnt feel so sorry for oursvels when we’re not drinking and feeling so left out. basically th ough, the beginning of being AF is the hardest, as time goes its much easier, althought ud still want that drink occasionally. well, im gonna get back to loathing. how is everyone?
well shit just wrote a 2000 word essay and it has disappeared again
katie
Wow Ela, im so sorry. i have had many of those nights. the same feelings waking up. it is so unreal to me that other people feel the feelings i feel. the morning after, the guilt, shame, depression, suicidalness. i am rushing out right now but i will write more later. we will all be there for u here. talk to u soon.
and kat, that has happene dto me SO many tijmes its so DAMN annoying, so i try to sum up what i said but its nothing campred to the essay i previousally wrote.
where is everyone? Hopless, how are you doing? usually you write everyday! Maybe people are having trouble getting onto the site..
hi jen
i am a bit worried about Fh too we email each other sometimes and i haven’t heard from her only once since she took the naltraxine. anyway how are you doing jen i am guessing that you are still AF if you are posting:-) I am on my 13th day except for a one glass slip 7 days ago! anyway I am still struggling and still of it but boy is it hard.
I dont have cravings as such just a total longing every evening all evening i amstuffing myface with sweets and cakes (funnily enough i have lost a few pounds) but it is not the same type of sugar. I go to bed feeling sick every night, not happy. But I guess it will pass, i hope so
anyway hi ela and betty nice to see you on here. I posted for about two/three months before i managed to stop and that really only happened when my partner was walking out with packed suitcases. So dont worry that you have not stopped yet. We are all in various stages of our drinking problems and i know this site really helped me so just stick around.
keep up the good work jen I know you can do it
hi to all you other guys it would be nice to hear from you
love and hugs
katie
Jen
I can really pack it away. 3 – 4 pints of lager everynight in the pub and then a bottle of wine at home while I cook tea and then I finish it off while I read. On a weekend it could be more. The only time I drink just ‘just’ a bottle is if I dont go out. If I don’t have a bottle in the house to go home to I am crawling the walls. I have managed 4 days without up to now but yesterday went out for lunch and had a glass of wine to be sociable and that led to a bottle last night. When buying wine I always check to make sure it is at least 13%.
I have never abstained for any length of time before now.
Like you I am now munching chocolate and sweet stuff and I usually don’t eat sweet things.
I just wish the ‘crawling the wall’ feeling would go away. Does it ever?
Like Ela I just want to be normal
Betty
Hi All-
Hope this works! I am ok just could not post for a few days and gave up as I am on a job search from hell!
The Naltrexone does work by the way. BUT you have to take it. I made a bit of a mistake in that I decided I would drink again only not take the Naltrexone until later. Needless to say the “high” made me say screw it to the Naltrexone and it ended up a very heavy night. I at least now know I have to take it ahead of time and not play any games with it.
I did call a clinic that specialises in using Naltrexone for moderation and was told that 50mg was too much for my size and I should break it in half. Part of my non-complete compliance was that I wanted to not get that headache and nausea when I took it. I am ok now but due to repeated withdrawals even that night of heavy drinking brought back the withdrawals.
I am quite upset with myself but was told by the woman at the center this is not abnormal as a lot of people who start it stop because the side-effects only to find they go back to their old patterns. I am just thankful it did not last for weeks as it has in the past. I managed to just put it down this time.
Ela, I can relate to you. I moved to USA about two years ago and actually left my bf of 8 years to move here. I seemed to spiral after that. I had no good friends, was lonely, and drinking was an escape for me as well. Not to mention my addictive personality. I too have used sex, shopping, spending, name it and I seem to just have such an addictive personality it is painful for me to just “be” at times.
I am not sure if you are referring to the “crawling off the wall” feeling that comes from not drinking but if you are, I assure you it does pass. It takes about 3-5 days.
For me I do not get cravings between drinking bouts. I usually am fine when off it but put it in me and hell breaks loose. I usually start drinking first thing in the morning when I am on a bender. I only manage two or three bottles of wine throughout the day but for me that is a lot. In my late teens I was literally a “drinker” but by choice not need. I drank two bottles of vodka per day because I had a lot of personal problems I had to deal with. As I have stated at that point I was an “alcohol abuser” which I know because I could stop when I had to go see my family or had something important. At some point during that year I no longer could stop. It was certainly partly physical addiction but for me I believe I also changed my brain chemistry which is why I think Naltrexone does work for me. I would get an undescribably rush that just would not let me put down the bottle. I managed to get sober for over a year through AA but as I was so young I did not want to be stuck forever being sober. I started drinking again and for a while my pattern was pretty normal “for a teen”. I drank on weekends and special nights and would drink too much but not much more than most people my age. In fact I often could even drive home and was just “impaired”.
Then I had various bouts of complete abstinence by choice. Ironically I go through mega healthy spells and then do not have any desire to drink. Then things get bad in my life and a drink leads to a million.
I can tell you that there have been so many times I do the walk of shame into a store to buy my booze. I will lie and pretend to ask questions like I have no clue what I am buying and ask for suggestions “for a party” . This was true especially since I have been here. The humiliation is too much at times and I would buy bulk so I did not have to go back. Unfortunately I also found a liquor delivery place and I can assure you in the past I was one of their best customers.
Then there is the humiliation of the clean up. When I would go days without a shower, my house would be a mess, my bed sheets soaked with sweat and spilled booze and worse yet, the late night trip to the bin with a heavy bag of clinkling bottles.
This time I did not have a real bender I just drank too much and got rather depressed with myself for not taking the Naltrexone. I am committed to taking it but I am considering the shot as it lasts all month and there is no choice! I was suprised I chose not to take it but my theory was not really to get drunk rather to avoid the headache until I had enough booze in me that I would not feel it. The headache can be bad but frankly I think that is what a normal drinker feels, that is the “stop” sign they get.
I cannot tell you how many times I have done humiliating things drunk either. Strangers in my bed, drunken emails full of lies, calls with some made up drama for sympathy etc. The comfort I have is I know I am not alone in that as I hear these stories all the time.
I also truly believe in the Naltrexone but I believe you need to take it every time you are going to drink. You cannot play games with it. This is actually its biggest failure until they came out with the injection is that too many people would drink on it then play games by saying “well tonight I want that feeling”.
I also become a major hypochondriac when I drink and start to imagine I have all sorts of things wrong and I am imminently going to die. Trust me we all know your pain here. If you listen to everyone the one theme that seems to run on all our posts is “I wish I could drink like everyone else”.
In the past NO doctor of any reputation would consider advocating that. BUT things are changing. In UK and USA they still misuse Naltrexone and I do not get why! I am no doctor but obviously if something stops an opiod induced rush you need to drink for it to work. Ironically. It is conditioning like with rats. They let you drink yourself silly but eventually when you see there is no “great high” you stop. David Sinclair founded this method and I must say it is, to date, the best method I believe in. I believe in it because frankly 99% of us are not going to stay sober. We can’t on our own free will. We always harbour the thought that “one day I can drink again”. More often than less we do. AA has a 5% success rate. The shame is that the doctors DO see it as medical to an extent yet until recently have not come out with any drugs to help us. Instead they tell us the best cure is a self-help/cult with a success rate that would not be acceptable in any other circumstance.
The best thing I can say is do not beat yourselves up. We all make mistakes it is how we deal with them. I do believe, as Jen mentioned, that you need a free period for the Naltrexone to work. Most dostors who do the Sinclair Method do not believe this but for me it just makes sense to clean out a bit so all your body functions are in working order.
I wish you luck and as always send my hugs and sympathies to all!
Hey guys, hey Kat, im on day 8 AF now.. Betty and Kat, good jobs!! Tthe crawling the wall feeling im not sure what that means, but i do know the first three-five days like hopeless says, are the worst. ihave to say i feel pretty good though. my depression has lifted and i wake up in the morning with happiness now, not suicidal feelings. i sometimes say to myself, See! Look at this? wouldnt you rather just be AF forever? Night times are basically the culprits! however, this has been a rather easy AF time for me for whatever reason. i am taking amino acides for my depression and also I have turned my attic third floor of my house into a bedroom with a flatscreen tv room , futon, table, etc. so i have privacy away from my parents and basically a normal living situation as compared to before. (no tv, no laptop, no privacy, closet for a room) thats probably why i dont mind this af period as much. im a little worried at thanksgiving. iwant to do this af period for more than amonth. also want to lose a few pounds. but thankgsiginv is the big day where my family goes to our relatives houses and they all drink themselves silly with wine up in the pocono mountains, on a resort. its fun. i may just not go. theres no way i coulod go and not be annoyed at watching everyone drinking wine. literally. my dads side of the familiy are all drinkers.
Hopeless ur doing well girl. The same problem you had with naltrex is what i did with Kujdzu. it really seemed to work, but it took awsay all the pleasure of drinking for me basically. so i didnt take it. very stupid and it really means that im using drinking to get that high basically. like most of us here or we woulndt be drinking. its funny how it effects us differently though. like ive told u before hopless, i just feel good for the first few maybe, and then i have trouble stopping bugt my good feeling feelings from the alcohol start to go down, and i feel more depressed than before. it seems the more i drink at that point, im just drinking to feel “normal” (not good, just not BAD) so everyone is different. i do have a drinjking friend that is like u, where that DRUNK feeling is that great feeling. its not really like that for me. unless i were to take a few shots right awsay. im typing rela fast so it may be hard to undrstandm, im gonna be late for work thats why. talk to u guys latere!
Jen it is nice to hear you normalised your living arrangement. To be honest with everyone my birthday came up and that was my “drinking on Naltrexone” date I set. It also set me into a deep depression (the birthday) just because I feel like another year has passed and I am no happier here than I was before. To be really honest as well, not drinking sucked. I know it is worse to have the pain, humiliation etc but when I drink I am, like you said, “normal”. I think there is a lot to be said about most of us having underlying depressions.
Like you I was thrilled with the Naltrexone. Kudzu did nothing for me at all. The Naltrexone literally made it as if I was not drinking like I used to. I just could take it or leave it and even felt headachy and nausea which, depending on who you listen to, is either the way a normal drinker feels after a few or just a side-effect of the meds.
Once again I have made a mess of my house but this time more due to depression. My drinking did not carry on like it had but definitely was excessive again. When I get depressed I do not want to do anything, clean, cook, even shower. I basically take to my bed. The worst things is my dogs are not well housebroken and when I am depressed I like them with me so inevitably they soil everywhere from the bed to the kitchen and living room. This is especially true as I tend to not take them on as many walks as I have a balcony and just hope they will use that—which they do not. So today is a cleaning day for me as well as job search day. Which is hard because I have had a potential (not sure it is for me though) that has wanted to chat but because I have been down I have put him off.
In many ways I wish I could rewind and never experimented with the Natrexone but I am also a realist and know that never drinking again is hardly an answer to anything. I used my 3 months to do a ton of research and the most successful people are not abstainers. One woman wrote a great book (I think as I have only seen the website) called “My Way Out” and as stated I am a firm believer in the Sinclair Method. It TRULY worked but unfortunately we all know when we take control of our drinking we get that “feeling” again and suddenly want to drink and feel the feeling. It is like we are chasing a high we will never again have.
I know what you mean with Thanksgiving though I do not celebrate it but my Birthday, Christamas, New Years are all times I think about. I do not think it is a danger to drink on occassion and I think if I stick with Naltrexone I will be fine. My problem is I associate my drinking with my “party girl” past so there is a trigger for me to want to let loose and meet guys and party and smoke and dance on bars (yes this was all me). Sadly—since I have been here unless I get an odd urge or visitor from abroad I am usually sat in my house drowning my sorrows rather than drinking.
Before when I would drink there would just be regret. The “oh no did I say that to so and so” Or “did I really sleep with that guy”. Now it is pure guilt. I basically sit by my computer or tv and drink and drink and drink. It is like a pity party. I was so pleased to have a couple of normal days that I decided—well one day without it can just be fun. Sadly one day for me is a whole lot of drinking-in fact I found I drank more than usual just in a shorter time. It was almost as if I wanted to cram it all in.
For now I am back to staying sober but like I said, it is a boring life. It is hard for me because I am quite isolated not knowing anyone (with any desire to go out at all) and the people I know bore me. I have no employment at present and when I did was working from home so that is a huge issue for me as my life is simply waking, taking care of my dogs, perhaps seeing some indidental people and that is it. I live in a city where meeting people is NOT easy, they all come and go very frequently. I have met at least 4 girls who were potentially good friends but all have left. The job market here is driving many out. (It is a beach town). Then there are the blokes—when I am sober I get annoyed more than pleased with the attention as it is usually while I am at the beach I meet them.
Isolation makes things a lot worse and when you are suddenly somewhere you have no real past and no connections you get very isolated and turn inward.
Kat, Ela and Betty as well as Dairy and Worried if you guys are around, how are you? Katie I know it has been hard for you but hang in. I never thought I would be going through this again to be honest. I thought that was it. I am not ready to give up on the Naltrexone at all though. I just think I realise now it is not a choice, it is a must if I choose to drink. Most people drink so little that we do not realise it. I recently realised a normal person gets a glass or two of wine with dinner then is done. This they do occassionally. For us the “all” or nothing is so common it is hard to conceive of. But I think with Naltrexone it is a re-learning experience and basically that is what the Sinclair Method even says. They in fact, expect binges and benders and heavy drinking especially in the beginning. I think mainly from non-compliance which is why I ended up taking myself off—we have a disease really and we crave a rush. I have no intention to drink for a while now and if I do I will be taking the pill well ahead of time. Rather one headache than the pain I have felt all too many times.
Hey Betty, yeah its funny how we munch on sugar stuff and im more thinking of food now. ( and alcohol, but since im on antabuse that isnt even an option, so im focusing on food, especially because im trying to lose some weight)
well im the same way.. if i have two glasses of wine at a restaurant, i have to go back and have more at home. the funny thing is sometimes if an hour goes by though, i lose the craving to have more and i just feel kinda sleepy. its good when that happens. the worse my alcohol problem has gotten, i usually always want more wine when i get home-even after an hour passed by. it just shows how the brain changes with this disease. it truly is a physical thing in the brain and body. Betty you have alot of willpower. It is so hard. for now keep focusing on being Af, and maybe try the Kudzu or naltrex-(forget how to spell) after a period of being AF. To everyone, Hopless talked about the “My Way Out” book about the lady who began taking Naltrex etc, and she was finally able to control her drinking. google, “my way out” and you’ll be able to read all about it, i read the book. i actually talked to the author online, who remains anonymous, and for whatever reason she decided to be AF completely now.. so not sure exactly what happened. i wasnt able to ask her why she made that decision.
Hopeless, I read your post, thanks for being honest that you did over do it, but dont feel bad on yourself. nothing bad happened at least and man did you have major willpower staying AF for three MONTHS! You are a strong lady. It saddens me to hear you say it is a boring life being sober. i kinda hoped that after a period of time life became great. the whole thing that stinks about it is, we tend to avoid bars and nightlife when we’re AF, and doing all of that on friday and satu nights help make life a bit more exciting. being on antabuse, i am going to go out sometimes to bars and not drink, just because i feel i should let myself still experience the party atmosphere so life can seem somewhat exciting still. i mean, im not single though, so it wouldnt be that exciting for me. if i was single i could at least look around and want to mingle with good looking guys. Definitely not happy in this relationship and one day soon i believe it will be over. its been so close many times. i just give in out of neediness and insecurity. but anyway, if i WASNT on antabuse i would be a bit weary about going to a bar just in case id give in. i dunno. i just feel like we cant deprive ourselves of life and excitement because we’re trying not to drink. i was thinking of getting some pot from a friend, and doing that occasionally.. i dont really like pot to much, but its something. i know i would NEVER become obsessed with smoking often.
Well, Kat how are you doing? Im sitting in my room just watching Curb your Enthusiasm. I have candles lit. by myself. talk to you guys tomorrow.
Hi Jen-
It is not abnormal for someone on Naltrexone to eventually decide to be af. See what happens is, according to the Sinclair Method, is that we have the habit because our brain gives the reward. We tend to drink as much in the beginning but get no result. So we try again. Sometimes we even do as I did and ignore taking it to “just see”. This happens a lot apparently. We eventually take it (most people) and slowly the behaviour has no reward so we stop taking any alcohol as it is pointless.
This woman though did not just take Naltrexone, in fact I am not positive she did until the end. She had developed a whole nutritional programme. These kinds of people I kind of question because they are selling “their cure” so to speak.
I am about to run because I have to go feed my dogs who are starving and do some laundry—nice life—so speak soon!
hey guys. yeah hopeless i know what your saying about people who just stop taking the Naltrex. That lady signs on to myway out forums pretty often though, i think she is sincere about her alcohol problems and naltrex. Kat, Bet, Ella , Annie, how are you all?
hey guys. yeah hopeless i know what your saying about people who just stop taking the Naltrex. That lady signs on to myway out forums pretty often though, i think she is sincere about her alcohol problems and naltrex. but that book did seem very well written.. lol
Kat, Bet, Ella , Annie, how are you all?
hi there,
still af day 15 now. strangely enough i have lost 5lbs which is a miracle as i am stuffing two bags of sweets and a bar of chocolate down my throat every evening to get a sugar hit. Just goes to show how much sugar is in the’demon drink’. I have read the allen carr book and am toying with the idea of going on the one day course. Has anybody read this book or got any thoughts on if going on the course is worth it.
I still feel like i am waiting to have my next drink and dont feel like i have really stopped. I think until i change what is in my head I am just an alchi queing for a drink. Which I find quiet dispairing. Maybe two weeks are not long enough to change a 12 year mind set, dont know.
keep up the good work jen
how is everybody else doing?
katie
Katie Congratulations!!!! I am so proud of you! Knew you could do it. In my case weight gain was needed. It all depends some people bloat and some shrink.
Have other things started to show promise in working themselves out? You do know it takes a while!
Thanks for the email btw. I will say on record, I am not so down just a bit let down by myself that I did find something that worked for me and decided to “see what would happen” if I screwed with the exact directions. It is such addictive behaviour. I now know that Naltrexone is a must when I drink at all times. I just am thankful it did not get as bad as last time(s). It was justa dumb thing to do!
X To all!