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Re: Cutting Down

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Winkler
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Re: Cutting Down

Post by Winkler » 09 Dec 2018 04:10

Sorry x
Alcohol is an addictive poison

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Ruby&Tilly
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Re: Cutting Down

Post by Ruby&Tilly » 09 Dec 2018 09:22

What/who are you apologising for/to?

Ruby xx
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Re: Cutting Down

Post by SoberBoots » 09 Dec 2018 12:15

Ruby&Tilly wrote:
08 Dec 2018 18:34
Got a letter from the dvla today, I need to see a government doctor before I can get my licence renewed, seriously fed up, it'll be at least another 2 months before they'll make a decision. :x

1/239

Ruby xx
Can you drive meanwhile?

If you stay sober you'll be able to supply hair and blood results showing that you haven't drunk, and you'll be able to look the Dr in the eye and say that you realised that alcohol was damaging to you and you no longer drink. You'll be nearly a year sober by then, and from reading when my friend lost his licence recently it seems that they look for a year clear.
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caroline95
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Re: Cutting Down

Post by caroline95 » 09 Dec 2018 12:15

I hope your head doesn't hurt too much this morning Winkler.

Sorry about your licence Ruby, you must be fed up with it dragging on for so long.

Well I stuck to my plan last week, stayed sober till last night and then had a bottle of wine.I think I'm going to move over to the 7 day challenge though, this routine of making Saturday night a drinking night is just reinforcing the notion that I'm missing out on something if I don't drink at the weekend.So when I do Dry January Saturday's going to feel much more difficult than it needs to be.Also, I find this time of year quite depressing a lot of the time, definitely not a Xmas person, and I'm worried about binge drinking over the holidays.There's still a couple of weeks to build up some sober time before the holidays and I think I need the structure of the 7 day challenge at the moment.

Best of luck to you both!

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Re: Cutting Down

Post by Ruby&Tilly » 09 Dec 2018 23:02

Hi Sally and Caroline, thanks for the replies, i am able to drive for up to a year as long as my Dr sanctions it, the year abstinent is if you are alcohol dependent, at most I was misusing alcohol, which is 6 months. I intend to stay sober till I get the blood tests taken, didnt realise they take hair samples too, gonna make the appointment tomorrow. I've only had 1bottle of wine over the last almost 8 months, so it should be OK. I've got an appointment with my new psychiatrist on Fri, so I'll need to inform them of that too, another 2 month delay! :evil:

Good luck on the 7 day challenge Caroline. ;)?

1/240

Ruby xx
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Ed
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Re: Cutting Down

Post by Ed » 21 Dec 2018 11:41

Cutting down. Its an interesting debate. I think its possible to do it but its highly individual. In my case I think its physically possible to do it but I dont think its psychologically that beneficial. I think if you drink a bit too much and it doesn't cause you to be depressed or lose interest in other things, or neglect responsibilities then I think its possible. My drinking modus operandi is twice a week, a bottle of wine and maybe a bit more on each occassion. In the scheme of things thats not massively hazardous drinking but it is two days with hangovers a week and the thought that I am doing something that I know I shouldnt be doing as someone who suffers from depression. As far as I understand when we drink we create dopamine which gives us a sense of reward, because its so powerful we lose the dopamine hit that we might get from more healthy pursuits. All the parts of the brain that control your psychological functioning are related so drinking can send your seratonin, norpinephrine, melatonin out of whack. Problem drinkers tend to have problems in all those areas: motivation, mood, stress, sleep. All of them effecting each other. The more problematic your drinking the more these will be affected and affect each other. Of course we are all different. If you drink too much but you are naturally predisposed to handling stress, or have a good social support network or can always sleep like a baby then you can probably maintain a balance and you could cut down. If drinking throws everything out of whack, like me, then you probably cant. Its not really a question of willpower as far as I can see or personality, just the specifics of your life and how it has evolved.
Enough time wasted on this.

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Re: Cutting Down

Post by SoberBoots » 21 Dec 2018 13:18

Ed wrote:
21 Dec 2018 11:41
Cutting down. Its an interesting debate. I think its possible to do it but its highly individual. In my case I think its physically possible to do it but I dont think its psychologically that beneficial. I think if you drink a bit too much and it doesn't cause you to be depressed or lose interest in other things, or neglect responsibilities then I think its possible. My drinking modus operandi is twice a week, a bottle of wine and maybe a bit more on each occassion. In the scheme of things thats not massively hazardous drinking but it is two days with hangovers a week and the thought that I am doing something that I know I shouldnt be doing as someone who suffers from depression. As far as I understand when we drink we create dopamine which gives us a sense of reward, because its so powerful we lose the dopamine hit that we might get from more healthy pursuits. All the parts of the brain that control your psychological functioning are related so drinking can send your seratonin, norpinephrine, melatonin out of whack. Problem drinkers tend to have problems in all those areas: motivation, mood, stress, sleep. All of them effecting each other. The more problematic your drinking the more these will be affected and affect each other. Of course we are all different. If you drink too much but you are naturally predisposed to handling stress, or have a good social support network or can always sleep like a baby then you can probably maintain a balance and you could cut down. If drinking throws everything out of whack, like me, then you probably cant. Its not really a question of willpower as far as I can see or personality, just the specifics of your life and how it has evolved.
Really interesting post Ed.

I think most who find themselves here reached the point of addiction a long time ago, although they may not recognise it even now (it took me a looong time!). It's interesting to read the cutting down/mostly sober/regrouping etc threads sometimes. What I see is that no-one's happy with how things are if they're drinking. I think you compromise yourself at some fundamental level if you know in yourself that you need to stop completely and yet don't, and that does a lot of damage in itself.
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Re: Cutting Down

Post by caroline95 » 21 Dec 2018 15:30

I always found this thread a helpful stepping stone for when I was struggling to stay sober for any length of time because, like all the other threads, it was a place of support.The problem was some people saw it as a place to debate cutting down vs abstinence, which made me feel judged, and that I had to justify myself for being here, so I'd just stop posting altogether.

There is a thread for the debate here - viewtopic.php?f=1&t=283.

The majority of threads on the forum are about abstinence, and rightly so, but this thread should be a safe place for those who haven't reached that stage, for whatever reason.
SoberBoots wrote:
21 Dec 2018 13:18
I think you compromise yourself at some fundamental level if you know in yourself that you need to stop completely and yet don't, and that does a lot of damage in itself.
This is the kind of comment that I see as perfectly suited to a debate thread but unhelpful and judgemental on a support thread.I do sometimes wonder why people who are committed to abstinence feel the need to comment here.I'm an atheist - although I could go to the Spirituality thread and post about why I disagree with religion, I just wouldn't.

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Ed
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Re: Cutting Down

Post by Ed » 21 Dec 2018 16:36

That's fair enough Caroline. I think fundamentally it's important to not feel judged. I've posted on this thread s few times as have had spells of cutting down. I suppose debate and support can have overlaps in the sense that someone's point of view can be helpful as support because information is power.

Harms forum is also a really good resource for cutting down if you haven't been over there. Not trying to shoo you away!
Enough time wasted on this.

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Re: Cutting Down

Post by caroline95 » 21 Dec 2018 17:21

Ed wrote:
21 Dec 2018 16:36
I think fundamentally it's important to not feel judged.
Hi Ed, I remember you from way back.I think for me, one of the most important things about BE, and what sets it apart from most other alcohol forums is that it aims to be much more inclusive, so it offers a place to people who don't feel comfortable or able to join an 'abstinence or nothing' type forum.

I get that debate and support can overlap, but invariably the point of view that abstainers post here is that cutting down doesn't work, we're all in denial and ultimately doomed to failure.So where does that leave people who know they need to stop but don't feel they can?That's how I felt when I first joined BE, but this thread gave me a foothold and the support I received here eventually gave me the confidence to build up some sober time.I even managed a year once, and my drinking habits have changed a lot since then, not ideal but massively reduced.I don't see cutting down as a goal for me personally, but it can be a useful stepping stone to longer term sobriety and I don't believe total abstinence is the only way to change drinking patterns.As you said, we're all different and I did find your post interesting.I just feel defensive and protective of this thread I suppose, it really was life-changing for me and I'd like to think other people who might be feeling as desperate as I was all those years ago can feel safe and supported here.

Sorry for going on a bit - good to see you around again :D

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Re: Cutting Down

Post by SoberBoots » 21 Dec 2018 18:10

caroline95 wrote:
21 Dec 2018 15:30
I always found this thread a helpful stepping stone for when I was struggling to stay sober for any length of time because, like all the other threads, it was a place of support.The problem was some people saw it as a place to debate cutting down vs abstinence, which made me feel judged, and that I had to justify myself for being here, so I'd just stop posting altogether.

There is a thread for the debate here - viewtopic.php?f=1&t=283.

The majority of threads on the forum are about abstinence, and rightly so, but this thread should be a safe place for those who haven't reached that stage, for whatever reason.
SoberBoots wrote:
21 Dec 2018 13:18
I think you compromise yourself at some fundamental level if you know in yourself that you need to stop completely and yet don't, and that does a lot of damage in itself.
This is the kind of comment that I see as perfectly suited to a debate thread but unhelpful and judgemental on a support thread.I do sometimes wonder why people who are committed to abstinence feel the need to comment here.I'm an atheist - although I could go to the Spirituality thread and post about why I disagree with religion, I just wouldn't.
Sorry Caroline - I just responded to Ed's post out of interest without really thinking about what thread it was on. I didn't at all mean to be unsupportive - cutting back and harm reduction represent huge gains, of course they do. You're quite right, and I'll keep my debating tendencies for the Road to Abstinence thread!
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Cliffe
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Re: Cutting Down

Post by Cliffe » 29 Jan 2019 09:02

Hello,

I'm new here and, to avoid repeating what I wrote on the New Members thread (thanks for the warm welcomes), my commitment at this stage is to reduce my daily units by two-thirds. When I've consolidated this, I'll start introducing AF days. It looks like the Personal Goals thread would be a great help when I reach that stage.

During the evenings, instead of three 1.75ml glasses of wine or two bottles of strong real ale, I'll keep to one glass or one bottle. I've measured out exactly 1.75ml.

On weekend afternoons, instead of having three pints of strong real ale in my local pub on both Saturday and Sunday, I'll go on either Saturday or Sunday and then have two pints.

Apart from an extra glass on Saturday, I've kept to limits that I set myself for the past four days.

I think I do actually have an off-switch and I think I can get down to 14 units and keep to it.

I was addicted to cannabis in my early to mid 20s. I stopped one day and never went back to it (and never will). Back then, I changed my lifestyle and circle of friends. My social life now is either my local pub or rugby club. Am I right in thinking I need to make similar changes now?

Any advice would be very welcome.
Every time I see him put the bottle to his mouth he don't suck out of it, it sucks out of him until he's shrunk so wrinkled and yellow even the dogs don't know him. - Ken Kesey.

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caroline95
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Re: Cutting Down

Post by caroline95 » 30 Jan 2019 11:45

Hi Cliffe, welcome to BE.It's worth browsing the self-help resources section for tips and advice, but just joining a forum like this and making a plan as you have is a good start, I think.

The trouble with this thread is hardly anyone posts here, so the support of others in a similar position isn't there.It's obviously up to you, but Personal Goals is a bit busier and there's no requirement to be having sober days to post there.

Best of luck to you, let us know how you get on.

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Cliffe
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Re: Cutting Down

Post by Cliffe » 30 Jan 2019 16:38

Hi Caroline,

Thanks for your welcome and advice.

I now feel comfortable going to the Personal Goals thread.
Every time I see him put the bottle to his mouth he don't suck out of it, it sucks out of him until he's shrunk so wrinkled and yellow even the dogs don't know him. - Ken Kesey.

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Re: Cutting Down

Post by Ed » 01 Feb 2019 20:29

Sounds to me Cliffe that you have a half decent off switch. Many of us don't unfortunately. Its hard to say whether you need to make radical changes. I guess you'll have to see how you get on for a bit and whether you find things comfortable. Personally, I dont think the 14 unit limit is an accurate recommendation. A lot of variables in different people. Ive drank about 20 units a week for the last 10 years on average but some weeks its been 40 and some weeks none. Ive kept a record so I know exactly what I've drunk. Boring but true! So that wouldnt seem like a big problem, but I drink 10 to 15 units in a go, virtually every time I drink. And that is a problem. At the moment I'm nearly 3 months sober. Sounds to me that if you can comfortably go AF a few nights a week and have a few pints in the pub on one day at the weekend then you'll have cracked it. I suppose the question is always, deep down, what are you comfortable with? For me, the only true position that sits comfortably is sobriety but 'better is better' as they say. I cant process alcohol very well physically and it plays real havoc with my mental health. Good luck with your journey here and in the outside world though and a big welcome to BE - its safe, supportive, non-judgmental and friendly.
Enough time wasted on this.

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Re: Cutting Down

Post by Ruby&Tilly » 03 Feb 2019 22:15

Cliffe wrote:
29 Jan 2019 09:02
I was addicted to cannabis in my early to mid 20s. I stopped one day and never went back to it (and never will). Back then, I changed my lifestyle and circle of friends. My social life now is either my local pub or rugby club. Am I right in thinking I need to make similar changes now?

Any advice would be very welcome.
Hi Cliffe and welcome to BE. :\: Sounds like you have a good plan to cut down. I guess it depends on the friends you have, whether they drink to excess and try and make you do the same. Personally I would try to cultivate friendships with non/moderate drinkers. I still have my drinking friends, I just don't go drinking with them very often but still meet them for coffee/lunch.

Best of luck anyway.

Ruby xx
When life gives you lemons, make lemonade.
352/12 days - sober/drinking (14 April 2018 - 13 April 2019)

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Re: Cutting Down

Post by Kokoda » 30 Mar 2019 09:54

Hi,

Not sure if anyone's on this thread. I'm back to trying the cutting down.

Who knows, maybe, or maybe it will end badly yet again.

Hugs,

Vic
We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make our world.

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Re: Cutting Down

Post by zelda » 30 Mar 2019 11:45

Vic,
you know, YOU KNOW that cutting down is not for you. Have you come here simply because you are not managing to cut out?
I am devastated today because I am back on day one. Last night my man's band members came round and the first to arrive gave me an expensive bottle of champagne, ready chilled, and said ' this is for you'.
Of course I didn't HAVE to drink, but to not drink would have been seen as rude, given that they all know that champagne is my favorite. My man actually whispered 'please" in my ear for goodness sake.
So I started sipping, no intention of getting drunk and then after two glasses actually thought "I don't want to be drunk" so i'll stop now.
SO WHY DID I NOT STOP??
I am so upset Vic. Can you not find it in your heart to come and accompany me on my new try? Or are you not in the right head space which I completely understand?
Sending you hugs whatever you decide.
Zed
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Glass of Wine "Oh blimey , I could kill Zelda".....

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Re: Cutting Down

Post by Kokoda » 31 Mar 2019 02:46

Ohhhh Zelda,

That's such an awful choice <:)> . I'm pretty sure I would have gone the same way. Your husband obviously felt it would be a huge embarassment for him if you didn't drink it. How on earth are you supposed to combat that situation <:)>

People don't understand. My son and I have come to an understanding, a limit of two drinks on any one day. I'm not decided yet, I had one drink last night, but didn't really care for it.

I will visit you on the 7 Day thread, don't be too hard on yourself, that's not a situation many of us would cope with.

Big hugs,

Vic x
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Re: Cutting Down

Post by Spats » 31 Mar 2019 17:10

Vic I so feel for you <:)> I’m alone when I’m drinking but it’s not through loneliness now that I drink it’s because I allow myself to do so. I drank last night but have set myself a target date to stop drinking. Tonight I won’t be drinking because I don’t care to. I’ve just posted on the road to abstinence and are you still drinking threads.

Stay strong and do your level best tonight and tomorrow <:)>

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