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S-J
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Re: Good reads, poems and quotes

Post by S-J »

Hi Mike,

I just read the article on Times Online and was about to post the link.

Definitely worth a read - it made me think, 'bloody hell, is alcohol really worth all the hassle it brings along with it?'

I'd say for me that it's definitely not. :roll:
"The beauty of life is finding the balance between peace and passion."

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qwerty
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Re: Good reads, poems and quotes

Post by qwerty »

hi, i used to read a book a day, but haven't read anything for the past 4 years, can't even concentrate on a mag' but i would dearly love to start reading again and found your post and replies very encouraging. i'm only one day sober and after reading posts remembered how much i used to lagh reading terry pratchetts 'disc world'. thanks for awakening my interests. xx
Liz. xxx.
Oh would some power the gift he gi us...to see ourselves as others see us

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Lush
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Re: Good reads, poems and quotes

Post by Lush »

Here's the link to the Times Online article that Mike mentioned, took me bloody ages to find it! :lol:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_a ... 092376.ece

Just off to read it now.

Susie
xx
"I love the English language, it has a certain je ne sais qoi".

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Lush
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Re: Good reads, poems and quotes

Post by Lush »

Kate Spicer has definitely got a self-destruct button. I have to disagree with practically every sentence she wrote in that article. Did you see that documentary thing she did a while back about becoming a Size Zero? She made herself extremely ill just to prove a point. Dawn Porter also did it but I don't think she took it as far. I love Dawn Porter by the way, I want to be her. :lol:

Susie
xx
"I love the English language, it has a certain je ne sais qoi".

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Lush
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Re: Good reads, poems and quotes

Post by Lush »

This is for everyone with children and it is extremely worrying. Again from the Times Online.

Article by Kaya Burgess:

"A child under ten is admitted to hospital to be treated for alcohol-related problems once every three days in England, according to Government figures revealed today. "

Of course the politicians had to have a dig too but this Don Foster, spokesman for the Lib Dems has a point:

“Only a complete change to our drinking culture will prevent a whole generation of young people from being condemned to serious alcohol-related illnesses.”

Full article here

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/u ... 118537.ece

Susie
xx
"I love the English language, it has a certain je ne sais qoi".

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hamster
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Re: Good reads, poems and quotes

Post by hamster »

That is shocking Susie! What the hell are the parents doing? Where are these children getting the alcohol from?

You know I more and more believe the methodists and muslims have got it right just not doing alcohol at all. Why does anyone need to have alcohol in ahouse? And, if it is there why is not locked in a cupboard with the key in the posession of the parents? It is a drug. That we have made it so socially acceptable that kids can get hold of it is horrific.

Lets be honest - we even laugh at drunks on the tv . We are not shocked by them, we dont dissaprove - they are hilarious, but what is that telling our children who may well be watching also?

Its very worrying.

We dont have alcohol in our home , OH doesnt drink and nor do I know. We dont even buy it in for guests - if they want to drink they bring their own. We dont have any friends that drink (just the way it is - we dont go looking for non drinking friends) . Not buying drink in for guests was a decision consiously made to give our son the best chance at understanding alcohol is a drug and not something to be taken lightly. I dont for one minute think he wont drink when he gets older but perhaps by setting an example and talking about it he will have some respect for the dangers it holds. Perhaps :roll: I know it doesnt always work that way for other drugs.

I find it hard to understand why ten year olds are not supervised.

Very worrying times.

Hammy
x
AF2011 number 10

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queenie
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Re: Good reads, poems and quotes

Post by queenie »

we came across so many young people with alcohol poisoning in my old job. there were people on the estates who would sell litres of vodka to quite young children. the fall out was also very frightening - the risky behaviour was something else.
how many therapists does it take to change a light bulb? only one, but the light bulb has to really want to change...

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Lush
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Re: Good reads, poems and quotes

Post by Lush »

Bit of a subject change here but very timely I think.

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved, and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

-Lt.Col.John McCrae

Susie
xx
"I love the English language, it has a certain je ne sais qoi".

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queenie
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Re: Good reads, poems and quotes

Post by queenie »

fiend

thanks for posting this - it makes a change to read something rational and well-reasoned in this debate. i think the pattern you describe is something that replicates itself within any large organisation. i suppose its the nature of any group of people that there will be those who think they have all the answers and have to 'redeem' those who have not yet found the correct path. political parties and religious organisations are full of them.

one of the diagnostic tests for autism is known as 'theory of mind' which basically is whether someone is able to picture someone else's mind having a different world view to their own. i think this trait is far more widespread than just those with a diagnosis of autism. some people find it impossible to picture there being more than one road through life, and even find it a threat to their own stability that others choose a different path. i've written before on here about how people who don't eat meat get such a lot of grief from those who do. its almost as though people see something as personal as what you choose to ingest as a direct criticism of them.

ho hum. there's nowt so queer as folk...

Q
how many therapists does it take to change a light bulb? only one, but the light bulb has to really want to change...

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Lush
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Re: Good reads, poems and quotes

Post by Lush »

Hmmm...where's Glenn's post? I didn't see it so I can't tell what Fiendish and Q are replying to.

Susie
xx
"I love the English language, it has a certain je ne sais qoi".

Amber
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Re: Good reads, poems and quotes

Post by Amber »

I actually find this post quite upsetting. Ignorance in life can sometimes be a good thing. I wanted and want to believe in AA. I need something to believe in to get myself out of this hellish existence I have created for myself with alcohol. Dont you think it would have sufficed to just recommend the book and briefly summarize its content? If I were to quote large passages from the Big book or other pro AA texts, would it offend you? I think it would. As I have said before, I am not an AA fanatic, I just need something to believe in, whether that may seem short sighted or ignorant to you, I dont know, but please , I am feeling fragile and distressed enough and dont want to be subjected to these posts any more, if you were seeking to provoke reactions, you have got them
The strongest among the weak is the one who doesn't forget his weaknesses.
- Danish Proverb

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Bupster
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Re: Good reads, poems and quotes

Post by Bupster »

Amber, thank you for making that response and I am really sorry that you've been so upset by this post. I've reported the post and will be speaking to admin. Apologies again. I'll PM you as well. <:)>
Do not wait; the time will never be "just right." Start where you stand, and work with whatever tools you may have at your command, and better tools will be found as you go along. George Herbert

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Re: Good reads, poems and quotes

Post by Amber »

Hi Bupster, I have messaged you back.Please dont think that it is your responsibility to shoulder the blame for others insensitivities, those who take the time and thought to post so extensively on antagonistic subjects would do well to start taking the time to consider the feelings that such posts may invoke in their readers. Thankyou for your concern xx <:)>
The strongest among the weak is the one who doesn't forget his weaknesses.
- Danish Proverb

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Mike
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Re: Good reads, poems and quotes

Post by Mike »

So has this become a second 'rant thread' now ?

Big deal, someone has found a book telling of abuse within the ranks of AA.

Would it surprise any of you to know that there are plentiful supplies of horror stories about AA on the Internet ? Before I went to my first meeting I thoroughly researched AA on the web. I avidly read everything I could find including origins, history, reports of miraculous death's door cures, and tales of alleged sexual abuse by AA elder statesmen. I read about AA as an extension of the moral rearmament movement, and about AA as a cult. Then I went along to meetings.

I've embarked on a similar trail of research before joining other groups and organisations. Some of this was in pre computer days when I combed libraries and second hand book shops for information. And then I made my own mind up, for me. Sometimes my research continued long after I had joined the various organisations.

At first the information was for my benefit. In every case I knew I could not be sure of the veracity of the reports until I had experienced the groups I was about to join. With the benefit of experience I was later enabled to communicate some of what I had learned to others. But I never considered myself to be an instant expert or disseminator of so called wisdom. I had to learn more about it for myself.

Previously on this thread we have had members recommending a book or magazine article, together with a few brief comments about whether they had enjoyed it or not, as the case may have been. Members sometimes exchanged books. As a literary biased thread aimed at bookish people on a friendly forum it worked very well. Can't we please return to that formula ?

Mike

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Mike
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Re: Good reads, poems and quotes

Post by Mike »

No, I don't get my point either.
I am too tired.
Give up.

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Liquid Child
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Re: Good reads, poems and quotes

Post by Liquid Child »

Thanks Mike, yes it is a big deal isn't it.

Mike is very correct, when you do your research you will find there is so much literature outlining the many horror stories of awful abuse linked to AA.

Sorry Amber you are quite right, there is no need for any of us to go into the specific details of these stories so I shall be brief. I have ordered a book and this link tells you more about it:

http://www.peele.net/lib/twelve.html

Glenn xxx
Last edited by Liquid Child on 14 Nov 2008 17:11, edited 1 time in total.

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Liquid Child
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Re: Good reads, poems and quotes

Post by Liquid Child »

I've just started reading Allen Carr's 'Easy Way To Control Alcohol' as recommended by this website and it is a fascinating read.

Although the opening page dedicates the book to 'The Fellowship' (AA) it's interesting that on page 3, Allen says:

"Why do I contradict the cornerstone of AA philosophy: the idea that alcoholism is a disease for which there is no known cure?
BECAUSE IT IS BASED ON A FALLACY!"


I'm still only on the second chapter and my memory is so bad as of late, I keep having to go back and re-read things just to make a few more permanent neural connections... common there has to be a few jokes in that... I'm waiting :mrgreen:

Glenn xxx
Last edited by Liquid Child on 14 Nov 2008 21:00, edited 2 times in total.

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Kitty
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Re: Good reads, poems and quotes

Post by Kitty »

Anyone read Augusten Burroughs 'Running with Scissors' ?
Fantastic autobiographical book I thought. Great writing with humour, not at all sentimental like some books like that can be.

He has one out called Dry - about his addiction to alcohol and I thought it might be worth a look, has anyone read that?

Kitty X
"Somebody once said we never know what is enough until we know what's more than enough" Billie Holiday

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Liquid Child
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Re: Good reads, poems and quotes

Post by Liquid Child »

LOL... Kitty, I've not even read anything about it yet but I just googled it and as soon as I saw the cover I thought of me :lol: :lol: :lol:

(there's tears behind that laughter)
Last edited by Liquid Child on 14 Nov 2008 17:43, edited 2 times in total.

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Kitty
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Re: Good reads, poems and quotes

Post by Kitty »

Hi Muriel,
Yes, well if you decide to read it you will see why his parents developed a selective memory. I

Autobigraphy is a strange one though, even siblings with just a year between them can remember things quite differently. I remeber with the book Angela's Ashes the brother of the author had quite a different story to tell.

Kitty x
"Somebody once said we never know what is enough until we know what's more than enough" Billie Holiday

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