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Withdrawal / Kindling

Specific emotional or mental health problems, like anxiety, depression, insomnia, confidence etc. Along with bodily health, exercise, nutrition.
notorious

Re: Withdrawal

Post by notorious » 27 Mar 2013 14:09

Hi Croaker.

Everybody's different, as we all have (slightly) different physical make-up, bodies etc etc.

BUT

That does sound within the realms of what you might expect, yes. I recall during one binge aftermath doing something similar - it was day 2 or 3 and I decided that the best thing was to 'push on through'. Not a great decision for me, personally, at that time. As soon as I was outside I was dizzy beyond descrption, sweating profusely, looking and feeling extremely feverish and involuntaily wretching. Really not nice.

But it WILL pass. I know this is a little clichéd but, really, best thing you can do right now is rest up, completely, loads of fluids, eat little and often if you can. Within a few days the physical side should subside enough for you to take stock and plan the next move.

Keep at it. Keep posting, and just remember it passes.

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Re: Withdrawal

Post by croaker » 28 Mar 2013 16:34

Thankls notorious.

Well the shaking and retching has stopped, now I just feel fluey. Reading through this seems noraml for us lot :)

I'll keep on keeping on.
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Re: Withdrawal

Post by jaffa21 » 12 May 2013 19:42

Hi all. I'm about to have my community detox tomorrow starting at 10am. I will be put on Librium but no idea of the dose till in the morning. Very nervous!!!! But also excited.... Strange I know but so want to best this demon. Hope you're all well. Xx
I am fighting this with all my might.

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Re: Withdrawal

Post by Topcat » 12 May 2013 19:47

Hi Jaffa. I detoxed with the help of Librium more than once. It's nothing to worry about. It will make you feel quite drowsy so driving and using machinery is not recommended. I found I slept very well indeed on it which was a great help. All the best <:)>
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Re: Withdrawal

Post by jaffa21 » 12 May 2013 21:14

Thanks Topcat. I'm really nervous and have been told I can't drive. But I'm also worried about how I will feel. I still have two kids to think about although my hubby has taken the week off work. I just dread the sweats shakes and possible vomiting and runs. :-/. Xxx
I am fighting this with all my might.

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Re: Withdrawal

Post by faith2be » 12 Jun 2013 09:32

Croaker - sounds worrying, but if you're over the worst, ride with it. Stay AF long enough to see the light at the end of the tunnel! ;)?
Martha - I'm on Day 4, and yes, for me days 2-3 were pretty awful, much worse than Day 1. Grit your teeth, and just do it. Day 4 is definitely better, although still joint and muscle pain and fatigue, headache getting better. Be prepared, and as above, stay on the wagon to get the benefits (otherwise it's a waste)- sorry dont mean to sound preachy, I always fail at day 3-4, but am trying to do this now.
See the 7-day thread, conversation between body and brain. Very funny.
Hang in there everyone. <:)>

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Re: Withdrawal

Post by LadyJane78 » 27 Jul 2013 05:09

Hi, just wondered if anyone has experienced something similar to me or not. Hoping for some advice:

In early jan this year after a particularly bingeful Xmas I started to get withdrawal symptoms. Body was craving alcohol. Felt similar to when I quit smoking. I roughed out the symptoms and stopped drinking for a month. I then decided to test the water again and drank only two beers. Within 3 hours of drinking them, the cravings were back.

So I quit again for two months and then experimented again. Same thing happened. Withdrawal kicked in a couple of hours later. So I quit again for a couple of months. I then thought 'sod it' and went out with friends and drank a bottle of red over an evening. Oh my god. Never felt anything like it in my life. The withdrawal this time was horrendous. Racing heart and palpitations. I was on the train going into work and thought I was going to die then and there. Sweating, nauseous. I thought I was going to have to ask fellow commuters for help and require hospitalisation. I managed to get through it. I had to lie down in the cubical loos at work for 3 hours trying to calm myself. My head felt like it was going to explode.

Anyway, the point to my rambling is that most days since that episode (9 weeks ago), I get a headache almost daily now. Generally when I wake up in the morning and I get a massive migraine if stressed. It's over 2 months now since I last had any alcohol. Anyone else have headaches for such a long time?

They don't feel like normal headaches either. It's like I can feel my brain's circuitry flickering away.

I have come to terms with the fact that I am physically addicted to alcohol and that it doesn't matter how many weeks I leave between my last drink I will suffer withdrawal.

Did/does anyone else get withdrawal symptoms from consuming very little alcohol? As I mentioned above, I get a racing heart, sweating, nausea from drinking just two beers?

Any advice or thoughts would be really appreciated.

Thanks,
Jane

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Re: Withdrawal

Post by smudge » 27 Jul 2013 11:53

Hi Jane,

It sounds to me like you are experiencing a severe form of "kindling".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kindling_% ... hdrawal%29

As I understand it, every time somebody stops drinking they go through withdrawal. In effect a hangover is a form of withdrawal. Over time the effects of withdrawal become more and more pronounced. Eventually, by the time a person is physically addicted to alcohol, the withdrawals are extremely severe indeed. I suspect this is what has been happening to you. As kindling becomes more and more severe the risks of withdrawal become greater and greater. I have read some theories that binge drinkers tend to suffer more from kindling than daily drinkers do, but I don't know how true that is. To be honest, it is knowing about this that helps to keep me sober. I still remember my last withdrawal. I don't want to go through it again.

As for the headaches... I got headaches for a long time after I gave up drinking. They didn't stop, as such, they just faded away slowly. The important thing I found that helped to keep them to a minimum was to make sure that I drank enough fluids. I was so bad at this in the beginning that I measured the capacity of cups, mugs and glasses, and used a kitchen timer to go off every hour to remind me to drink. I also kept notes on how much I was drinking to be sure I was drinking enough. I tried to drink about 3 litres per day in the early days, but I did reduce it to about 2 - 2.5 litres per day eventually. I've always thought of this as teaching my body how to recognise being thirsty, because my thirst "reflex" just didn't work properly.

If you suffer from vomiting or diarrhoea then make use of rehydration powders as well as plain water or other liquids. (Tesco do their own brand. The famous brand is Dioralyte but it is much more expensive than the own brand stuff.)

Good luck. :)
"I would rather be a non-drinker with the occasional desire to drink, than a drinker with the constant desire to quit."

Learn from other's mistakes, you won't live long enough to make them all by yourself.

I'm not a doctor!

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Re: Withdrawal

Post by LadyJane78 » 27 Jul 2013 16:37

Thanks for your reply smudge, really appreciate it.

I'd heard if kindling before (from this site actually) and agree with you that that is most likely what is going on.

It's funny because I had really cut down in my drinking and didn't drink a third of what I had done in the past. I was down to about 20 units a week. I guess you just don't realise how physically addictive alcohol really is.

Regarding the memory of the withdrawal, I'm the same as you. There's no way I can go through that again. Abstinence hasn't been that difficult as I'm too scared to drink now. A small amount will make me extremely ill and will take 7 days for the hangover to fully go.

What has been the most difficult part in all this is everyone else's reaction to me not drinking. I can't tell really anyone the real reason for not drinking. Partly because I have tried before at the beginning of the year and I get the feeling I'm not believed. I see the expressions on people's faces and it's like they think that I'm lying. They don't see me as an 'alcoholic' and don't think i could be experiencing withdrawal. Other people I can't tell because it would hurt me professionally and others I can't trust. So I've said I'm not drinking for a while as I'm waiting for blood test and the dr advised I lay off it for a while and their reaction is one like I've said I've died. Just because I'm not drinking for a while, along with 'go on, one won't hurt' and I'm thinking 'one will f*cking hurt me, leave me alone'. People go on and on, asking me several times what I want to drink.

This country makes is so hard to be alcohol free.

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Re: Withdrawal

Post by Chillyjack » 22 Aug 2013 14:00

Hi

I'm new to this site

Just want some help on some matters. 3 years ago I split up with and ex and moved out with mates. For 6-7 months we drunk a lot on student nights out etc. one or twice I passed out from it. Iv moved back in with my parents and calmed down slightly. After a night out in november 2011, the day after, late that evening I went for a lie down after food and suddenly became ill. I was sick a lot and felt apart from my body. Ambulance came and checked my heart, blood levels, everything. They said I was all normal. Chucked water over my self to check I was still real.

I went to the doctors who checked me over the next two weeks, and said I was completely fine. Tests and examinations. I still felt bad and not with it at all. They told me it was bad anxiety. For two years iv felt like it and Hardly drink anymore. Days after drinking my levels go through the roof. Iv not had a binge at all for at least 2 years but it was over a 6-7 month period when I did drink a bit more. Not a big drinker before or after it.

Anyway last couple of months iv been fine getting better until this weekend as It was my 29th birthday. My friends fill me with drinks till I blacked out. Carried home. Iv haven't done this in 2 years of drinking and I'm not a big drinker anyway.
Days after iv felt serve anxiety and I'm very frightened of withdrawal symptoms. I have anxiety symptoms over the last two years and had every test come back completely fine. Brain scans the lot.

Iv talked to my doctor yesterday and Monday and he has told me that I should not worry at all about it. It's the anxiety that is making things worse for you. I have been subscribed diazepam and seemed to feel a lot calmer and better after taking them.

I don't want alcohol and don't have cravings for it at all. Just petrified of what has happened and what could happen.

My doctors has said everything will be fine by the end of the week and talked about going on anxiety meds to get Rid of the anxiety as all blood tests, brain scans, heart test have come back completely healthy.


Sorry to go on but any help would be amazing as I'm just petrified


Thank you

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Re: Withdrawal

Post by scrossUSA5996 » 22 Aug 2013 22:35

Chillyjack - you and I are in similar situations, I think. I don't want to drink at all, but I'm terrified of the symptoms and what could happen if I stop. I started a taper a little over a week ago. I'm definitely drinking less, but I want to stop altogether and rid myself of this poison. I used to be so healthy. :(

I'd love to hear from some people who are still in more acute withdrawal/detox, if you're out there. I've been AF today but just laid down for a rest and the jerks really scared me, and still with the chills and the nausea. It would be good to hear if this sounds dangerous (ex. did anyone come from slight jerks in their sleep into a seizure?) or just typical of coming off. I don't want to go too fast, so maybe I should have a nip, but I don't want to.
"I am not afraid of storms, for I am learning how to sail my ship." ~Louisa May Alcott

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Re: Withdrawal

Post by Chillyjack » 23 Aug 2013 01:59

Hi scrossUsa5996

I'm not a big drinker at all. I don't drink every day. Never have. Just the very odd occasion drink on weekend. Iv have had 30-40 pints over a two year period. Had a massive binge for my birthday sat and just feeling so anxious. Very slight jerks. The diazepam is doing well. Spoke with so many doctors, nurses and a counsellor the last few days expressing my concerns and they said I shouldn't worry about it as I'm not a regular heavy drinker, I'm 29 and all my tests over the last year have come back normal. Brain scan, heart test, blood. Normal.


Iv told them that it could be alcohol withdrawal symptoms but the ruled it out and said its a very bad patch of anxiety. Your thoughts of our brain are causing the way you feel as alcohol makes anxiety 10 times worse. Give my body a rest for a week and a bit. Take the meds and try and relax.

Gettingbetter

Re: Withdrawal

Post by Gettingbetter » 23 Aug 2013 03:56

Hi Chilly Jack and SCrossUSA,

This thread on BE may be of great help to you both, I am hoping to post their as well!
Take care. All the best with these feelings you are dealing with, it can be so tough at times but believe me there is a Pot of Gold at the end of every Rainbow. Once our head space allows us to live in reality and the real world we see the Rainbows again, hear the birds and start living again.
Chilly Jack, I was never a drinker....never, never, never, I didn't even know what it was like to be drunk let alone tipsy.....but when I discovered it eased my anxiety for just a bit....I also discovered I had a allergic reaction to Alcohol. I am just rediscovering myself after bouts and bouts of binge drinking and the damage it has done. This damage happens very quickly for some, slowly for others.

Here is the Bright Eye Thread, hope to see you there!

http://www.brighteyecounselling.co.uk/a ... p?f=4&t=76" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Mike
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Re: Withdrawal

Post by Mike » 25 Aug 2013 21:01

Hi Gettingbetter,

I am so glad you are 'getting better'. But I do hope you won't be offended if I take issue with you on one point in your last posting on this thread. Can you please try to explain to me, a man with what I believe is fairly straightforward thinking, how you could have indulged in extensive bouts of binge drinking, consuming what I take to have been excessive amounts of alcohol, if you were truly allergic to it, without dying there and then on the spot ? This isn't meant to be a facetious or sarcastic question, I just need your belief in alcohol as an allergen explained to me.

You see, I used to be an enthusiastic AA attender, and this belief in allergy to alcohol which is peddled as 'the doctors opinion' in their meetings, is one of the corner-stones of the AA faith system. It's something I could never come to terms with, and still can't. If you are allergic to nuts and consume nuts by mistake, you will be lucky to survive the incident. Less severe allergies will cause lesser symptoms, but symptoms nevertheless. However allergy to say, penicillin or aspirin will cause a similar anaphylactic shock reaction to nut allergy on a subsequent exposure. There are of course several types and sub types of true allergy, and there are one or two obscure allergic reactions to alcohol but they are rare, and limited to very few people with sometimes genetic metabolic defects.

When people express the belief that they were somehow allergic to alcohol, they immediately expose themselves as an AA attender. And what's wrong with that you may ask. Absolutely nothing wrong with it at all is the appropriate answer. It's one of the many ways that alcoholics get sober. But if you hear that view expressed across a crowded room at a party, and the speaker is drinking fruit juice, you know there is a fellow AA member in the room. Although I sometimes still go along to AA, I refuse to read from their Big Book, passing the buck to the person sitting next to me. I believe that on the AA web site the 'doctors opinion' chapter has been at least parially re-written by a modern doctor in an attempt to put the matter straight.

Please don't think that I am trying to put myself forward as a great authority on alcoholism, because I'm not, but I am an alcoholic and I was never allergic to it. I couldn't get enough of the stuff down my neck. I was ADDICTED to it, after the first drink I just couldn't stop. Neither am I setting out to belittle you Gettingbetter. You are merely reiterating what you have been taught. Alcoholism is an addiction and not an allergy. Why do AA persist in doing this ? Do they think it is more socially acceptable to have an allergy rather than an addiction ? I dont get it, loads of people are addicted to chocolate and where's the social stigma attached to that ? After all,I rather like big ladies, but I digress.

Now all the AA folk on here (and there must be a few) will descend on me and give me a hard time. All I am trying to do is demythologise AA dogma which might have been scientifically acceptable a century ago, but which cerainly is not now.

Sorry if I have inadvertently offended anyone,

Mike

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Re: Withdrawal

Post by Jaxom » 25 Aug 2013 21:30

Mmmmm! I understand exactly what you are saying Mike as, although not a doctor, I have always been interested in things medical. In fact I nearly went down the medical school route.

I think it comes down to a medical view of the world and that of a layperson. I know I am not allergic to alcohol, I am addicted. Yet, from a strictly layperson's point of view I can also see the allergic analogy! If I drink I get ill. If I had a peanut allergy then eating them would make me ill (though very differently). But the answer in both cases is ..... don't do it!
An Inuit story. An old man is talking to his grandson: 'Inside me are two dogs fighting: a black one and a white one.` `Which one will win?' asks the boy. 'The one I feed'

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Re: Withdrawal

Post by Mike » 25 Aug 2013 22:07

Hi Jaxom,

Good point !

Mike
Last edited by Mike on 26 Aug 2013 02:33, edited 1 time in total.

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Mike
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Re: Withdrawal

Post by Mike » 26 Aug 2013 02:24

Hi again Jaxom,

Well of course it was a good point because it foussed on the medical and lay interpretation of medical terms which can be crucial to doctors but to others merely casual.

For example, if you see your doctor and say you are worried about a 'gastric stomach', all you are saying is that you have a stomach stomach which at the least is tautologous. When the news media say the spectators of a tragic event were 'in shock' they mean they were shocked, but that doesn't sound so impressive. The term 'in shock' strictly means severe blood loss with a reduced blood pressure and a rapid thready pulse. You don't die of a shock to the system unless you were previously very sick or elderly, but you could easily die if you were in shock. Do you get the difference ? So these terms do matter.

Your point was valid because it high-lighted the varied interpretations of medical terms by professional and lay people, but what I was attempting to say was try not to get fobbed off by quasi medical terms which may make you feel more comfortable about your condition but which aren't really fooling anybody.

The word allergy is not even quasi medical. It is a medical term with strct definitions for all the concepts it implies. You can't even casually call alcoholism an allergy because it isn't. The words 'alcoholic' and 'allergic' just don't belong in the same sentence.

When anyone says to me 'turns out I'm allergic to alcohol', I know they are saying that they are an alcoholic and in the past have been addicted to the stuff. So what ? I don't give a damn, so was I. Who are they fooling ? Themselves or everyone else in the room except me ? It doesn't matter, it doesn't need to be broadcasted. As long as they are on their own case, thats the main thing. Say anything like I don't drink, just don't use the word allergy, because it just don't cut the mustard.

I'm really sorry to go on about this. I feel like I'm one man taking on the entire might of AA. And they helped me for sure. I was a drooling out of control wreck, and they got me sorted. So of course I'm really grateful to the organisation, but please, please lets lose the use of the term allergy to make excuses for ourselves. There is really no way that allergy can be applied to the addiction to alcohol otherwise known as alcoholism, whether in lay or professional understanding.

Mike

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Re: Withdrawal

Post by shoshy » 26 Aug 2013 10:32

Hi there,

Just to butt in. You can be allergic and addicted to the same thing. In fact, in Traditional Chinese medicine, we become addicted to the things we are allergic (call it "hyper -sensitive ") to.

I learnt this years ago when I couldn't stop eating cheese despite it making me ill, to do with overactivity of the immune system etc.

Cheers.

Gettingbetter

Re: Withdrawal

Post by Gettingbetter » 28 Aug 2013 16:58

Hi Mike
I guess I owe you a long explanation as to why I know i am allergic to alcohol.
This site will not do justice to my planned "Thesis" on the subject. When I have got it all down and assessed by the experts, I will send you a copy Mike. That is the only method I know that some will listen to.
In the mean time I suggest you read some of the literature "out there" and on line.....even the Bible....Book of Proverbs...which will highlight the Effects of Alcohol on the mind, body and soul of an allergic person....just like me. I can loudly say today "I am an ALCOHOLIC", that is most important to me and that helps me in my recovery. Denial of that fact will lead me to doubt the TRUTH! The truth will set me free forever!!
Agree, Mike???
Till next time.
P.s.. I consider you as a friend so let's be friends. ;)? ;)?

jaxom5

Re: Withdrawal

Post by jaxom5 » 28 Aug 2013 17:19

GB, you are obviously entitled to define yourself as you wish so this is just a suggestion. The great unwashed public will label me an alcoholic. I don't. I am a normal human being who has an alcohol problem. There is much more to me than the drink thing. I am sure that is true of you.

Dave

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