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General Support and Chat

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Rachel
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Re: General Support and Chat

Post by Rachel » 28 Jan 2019 15:56

In case, it's of interest to anyone - particularly women.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/stories-4 ... o-recovery

I will think about your question Deanna, but yes, the social stigma is very counterproductive. It forces people to be secretive (although perhaps societal disapprobation is not the sole source of this behaviour) stops people seeking help (again there are other reasons we don’t do this – we are in the grips of a condition that doesn’t ‘want’ us to/makes us not want to get help, because part of us wants to continue.) I sometimes think that research is stymied somewhat – we are not believed to be worthy of a cure. And indeed options very limited. It's pretty much self help in the UK, unless you can get yourself hospitalized for related but not actual
l being alcoholic reasons, or have money. "Go to AA."
Perhaps we need a bit of social stigma though, as unlike depression and anxiety drinking is a choice? We don't choose to be alcoholics, but we are agents in this. But information might be more useful than shame? I don't know. Of course nothing really works on some - us.

Back to stigma I think perhaps also there are historical stereotypes that persist in collective consciousness. The Victorian drunkard who drinks his wages so that his children literally starve to death. The gin drinking woman in Hogarth’s Rake's Progress, who doesn’t notice her baby falling to its death from her arms (or indeed that awful bit in Trainspotting where the drug addicted mother just forgets to feed her baby, and it dies.) Drinking is associated with licentiousness – the pursuit of pleasure, and thus something to be disapproved of, when often it’s the opposite, or becomes the opposite once it takes hold.
Even amongst alcoholics I have seen people distancing themselves from other alcoholics. “Oh I never did anything as bad as that...” etc.

Oh the horror of someone who is an alcoholic. But oh, (in reality) the different sort of horror of what it’s like to actually be one.
Rachel

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SoberBoots
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Re: General Support and Chat

Post by SoberBoots » 28 Jan 2019 20:40

Deanna, I'm so sorry you've had a rough time lately. It's brave of you to post <:)> I think our problems breed in isolation. I think young people today are much more emotionally intelligent then my generation, but I still think there's a lot of scope for education about how to recognise, process, and manage ourselves and our emotions. This modern world can be an overwhelming onslaught of experinces that we're not really designed to bear (perhaps we'll evolve!).
The best time to plant a tree was 30 years ago. The second best time is today.
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Re: General Support and Chat

Post by g-man » 28 Jan 2019 22:11

Iroquois wrote:
28 Jan 2019 15:12
I have been in the valley of shadows, lately, so I have done some introspection!

I wonder if we could have a discussion about why we started drinking in the first place, for me it was around 17-years-old, and then went on for many, many years.

I can definitely say, my choice came from hereditary inclinations, rites of passage, but mostly anxiety! Or to mask, kill, or abolish anxiety!

At least anxiety and depression are recognized as mental illnesses now, instead of flaws and failure! Just think, how much easier our lives would have been if people would have just recognized that most people drink to alleviate nervousness and feelings of inadequacy. So simple, instead so many people view alcoholism or drug addiction as some kind of moral failure and see only the beast, not the frightened soul underneath the drunken one. Even people that drink view other people that drink to excess as some kind of evil monster! Have you noticed that?

I am interested to discuss this with you guys, we recognize that drinkers are just people like us, but we don't get to help people until they are in dire trouble or hitting rock bottom! We could help so many more people if the drunk and mental illness stigma were recognized and treated. Ignorance, secrecy, fear, shame should be helped instead of railed against! Care, not criticism, would be so much easier, more beneficial and so much more successful in beating the beast!

Let's discuss, shall we!

Best wishes with your battles, today! Deanna <:)> <:)> <:)>
Hi Deanna, I'm rushing around like crazy and just popped in to see how things are going (translate: life has been tossing some things at me so I needed a recharge I get from the group here). Your post really hit a nerve at the right time considering how I have been trying to retrograde back to the person I was before alcohol and the past few days I have trying to recollect how I started drinking. And it came to me, the post-hippies '70 where getting "high", taking a "trip", getting "mellow" was cool. So I'm sitting with the TV on this morning as I thought about this, with commercials, trailers, shows on, and occurred to me the're all using the semaphore, if not outright immersion into the distorted world of the Jim Hendrix Experience.Ya, but we were too cool to drink.

So ... add few years, professional cautions about legality. Boy did I miss the bus, they just legalized pot here in Canada, and I gave it up long ago. But you know, alcohol was cool right? It was legal, mom and dad like it, nice tax base for the politicians. Ya, drinking is OK right? Just make sure you can hold your booze right?

Then came the machine. The new me. Everything for the family, everything for the job, the ego illusion that I'm doing ok - I'm a somebody. But I get my reward right? Drinking. And you probably know how it works out. The functioning alcoholic. Boy was I good at it.

So, after the storm of middle age, I wash up, retired, like some surviving ship wrecked sailor on the shore. Whew, glad I made it. But what's this here around my neck? Not an albatross, but a bottle.

So here I am on the rescue ship. Thank God you came! I was beginning to get worried there.

We'll that was a little dramatic. 😊I have more than hope now, I have real progress. I can see my real problems now. Anxiety, insecurity, and maybe a little too self centered. So the work goes on.

If we don't want drug dealers near our schools, maybe we should thing about what we glamorize and romanticize for the adults.

Anyway got to go, here's looking at you kid ... 😉
I had my final drink August 11th, 2018.

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martha
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Re: General Support and Chat

Post by martha » 02 Feb 2019 19:30

/
Last edited by martha on 06 Feb 2019 15:59, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: General Support and Chat

Post by SueDenim » 02 Feb 2019 23:46

I would draw the line at knives for children :shock: ; but I've always had an 'emergency box'. Not for living in the wild (I'd be hopeless at that, and can't see that there will be any need!), but in case of a power cut, or burst pipe, flood or whatever. Mine is really for living in the house, but my town is prone to flooding, and several of my friends have had to leave at short notice, so even though my house is not at risk, I know that it can be sensible to know where things are if you need to grab them in a hurry and move them upstairs or whatever.

As for Brexit stockpiles, yes, I have been buying dried food and bottled water, and I shop at Costco and always buy things like tins of tomatoes and washing powder/shampoo in bulk, so between that and the dried stuff I have enough to see us through a short-to-medium-term shortage. It is difficult to know what will be affected, as it is the 'just in time' system of stocking supermarkets that will cause the issues. There are very few (if any) warehouses nowadays, hence all the lorries on the motorways, who will have to wait at customs after Brexit. Short of reading every label to see if there is one ingredient that has to come from abroad, we just don't know what will be in shot supply, so I am concentrating on just having enough to eat, even if it's not what we prefer, or would usually buy.

I think there is a good chance of power outages, at least in the short term, so I have checked the emergency box and made sure that there are batteries, lanterns, a couple of gas bottles for the primus, matches etc.

If nothing happens, the food bank can have the packets of soup and cartons of fruit, I will save on shopping for washing powder etc for a while, and the emergency box will still be there ready in case it's needed later.

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Re: General Support and Chat

Post by Iroquois » 03 Feb 2019 15:05

Hi Gang.

Thanks for weighing in on addiction and anxiety! I am hoping that some day addiction and treatment will become like any other treatable illness, but not sure it will be in our life time! It doesn't help at all that drinking and drugs are presented as mysterious glamour, which as we all found out, is about bogus to the max!

I am curious about the whole Brexit thing, what is expected to happen? I would do everything possible to delay the whole thing as long as possible. I just went into a cold sweat when they ferreted out that Steve Bannon, the Mercer's and Breitbarte were backing Brexit and throwing considerable money into it! I think the Mueller investigation reveal is going to rock the world! Be prepared for a bumpy ride because Putin and all the right wingers and oil rich countries are not going to give up their power and riches without a fight! I think it comes down to this one simple thing: They do not want to lose the power of our reliance on OIL, as in Fossil Fuels! Get rid of the need for oil, go solar, wind, electric, the Saudi's, Putin, and everyone invested in oil sure can't eat it now, can they? Or their money! Or their sand!!!

So, we have to stick together! The Allies survived WWII, we can do it again! Youth and Truth are going to have to save us!

Tomorrow night the Flaxen Haired, Orange Faced Putin/Puppet :oops: will give the State of the Onion (w) address and I will as usual, push the Mute button because I cannot listen to that fake liar more than a few seconds without my BP hitting Tilt!!!! So, I will watch sporadically for Stacey Abrahms to give the rebuttal, and give thanks for brighter, cooler, much smarter heads! :shock:

Hang in, and yes, stockpile, but give long, hard thought to resistance, not acceptance! Yes, it COULD JUST happen again!

Hugs, Deanna <:)> <:)> <:)>
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Re: General Support and Chat

Post by Pork » 03 Feb 2019 17:49

I have some plasters & paracetamol in a lunch box 8-)
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Re: General Support and Chat

Post by SueDenim » 03 Feb 2019 18:54

You've had your hair done, Pork :)

Re why we started drinking, I have been thinking about this, and it's not easy to know for sure. I'm sure that a lot of reasons are buried pretty deep, and it's the sort of thing that people kid themselves about.

It's probably not as simple as this, but I married very young, and my husband used to work shifts. I always hated being on my own in the house overnight, and found that having a few drinks helped me to sleep. This coincided with the trend for home brewing and wine making. Every High Street had a shop that sold wine making kits, demi-johns and the like, and we joined in with the trend. It was before the days when intake was measured in units, and anyway, there was no way of knowing how strong the results were. We used to decant it into bottles for the table, but had a barrel with a tap, which we kept in an understaffs cupboard, and filled our glasses from that for personal use.

This was how I started regular drinking, and also drinking alone - I did it when my husband was working, and when he was around in the evenings we used to go out regularly, so that we had some sort of social life. As time went on, I got better at being on my own, and then the children came along. I can honestly say that I didn't drink when pregnant, but I started again as soon as I reasonably could afterwards. When they were growing up, I was usually in the house in the evenings (husband at work), and by then wine was easy to get in supermarkets and off-licences, so I would drink when they went to bed, again to help me sleep (or so I told myself - I wonder if addiction was setting in by this time). As they got older, I was able to go out more, and my work had a very social 'after work' culture, which I gladly bought into for years.

By the time I left work, I was getting through a bottle of wine in a bar (sometimes more) then getting home and opening another. I knew it had to stop, but didn't know how. In the end, I decided to leave work, knowing that I'd have to manage on savings until I got the pension I had been promised would come at 60 (it will now be when I'm 66 (Brexit allowing), so I am having to make savings last for 8 years). Drinking in those quantities, particularly in city centre wine bars, doesn't leave much money for saving, so my lifestyle has changed radically.

I have damaged my liver, live with a lot of shame and regret about the years before my children left home, and still don't sleep - madness! If there was one thing I could change about my life it would be picking up the first drink I had as a sleeping aid. I know there is no going back, and like everyone, I have to make the best of what I can, so I prefer to be glad that I managed to stop.

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Re: General Support and Chat

Post by Pork » 03 Feb 2019 19:24

Think I have 35 years until I can retire.
Glad your happy now sue.
I can’t say all my drinking was bad. Maybe most. But you gotta do what you gotta do.
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Re: General Support and Chat

Post by Iroquois » 04 Feb 2019 16:31

Yes, SueD, I can sure relate to the alcohol sleeping potion! Even before I got into heavy drinking, I would have a beer or two and then finish it off at bedtime with a dose of Nyquil!

Were you an insomniac in childhood, too, Sue? I was, for sure! Even, under the age of 10, I can remember being awake when the rest of the family were snoozing! I would play with my dolls in the dark, making forts out of my covers! Or as an older child, I would just read and read and read, until my mom would wake up and come storming and yelling at me! :lol2:

I try to accept it, even now, though it is tough, I hate to go around all dog tired but still can't fall asleep! I have taken this year to get my sleep pattern into a more acceptable normal. I switched from a night owl to a reluctant morning person by just staying up all night for a couple of nights, and then going to bed earlier when I got really, really tired. So, now, I wake up at 3 or 4 in the a.m. and just stay up. And then I take a small nap of 1 or 2 hours in the afternoon, so I won't fall asleep in front of the TV!!!! :o :shock:

Then, I am now tired enough to go to sleep when I go to bed or after a while of reading! So, I get about 6 or 7 hours altogether in a 24 hour period! I hope this keeps working, because I sure hated wasting the day!

In my final days of drinking, my Binge period, I would drink to sleep! Not to enjoy, but to sleep! Sometimes I would go 5, 6, 7 days without sleep and then become frantic, like psychotic in a way. I would get up after abut the 4th or 5th night of torturing myself with bad memories and vile or sad trips down a bleak Memory Lane, and head over to the drive up window of my favorite Killer Potion store and then head home, slurp down 12 drinks of cheap wine and then pass out with abandon! And then in that state of haze, every time I woke up in a trembling, quivering mass, down another glass of wine and back to a blessed stupor!

So, now, I just have to accept lack of sleep as a way of life! But, I do so envy those that can just fall asleep in a wink and slumber through just about anything! They are lucky!

Sleep when you can, I guess! Deanna :!: :x
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Re: General Support and Chat

Post by martha » 04 Feb 2019 17:31

/
Last edited by martha on 06 Feb 2019 15:59, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: General Support and Chat

Post by SueDenim » 05 Feb 2019 00:38

You may live to be glad of the grapefruit - it will keep scurvy at bay for approximately 37 minutes ;)

I am about to go to bed, and am going to try some new sleep balm that arrived this morning. Who knows if it will work, but there's no harm in trying, and I will report back if it's any good (nothing has worked so far, but I live in hope).

I have clean sheets to put on the bed, and will play soft music or my rain track, so that even if I don't sleep, at least I will be relaxed and in a nice environment.

I sympathise about the man who got away. It's horrible to remember some of the things we did when drinking, but I suppose if we could forget them there would be less of an incentive to stay sober, so maybe the memories serve a purpose?

Iroquois, nobody really knows what will happen after Brexit, but I can give you my prediction. Today's news was about Nissan pulling out its UK production, and this is after numerous SMEs have already gone under. More large scale job losses will follow. For the rich, it will all be fine, as they will get people willing to work for less than the current minimum wage, as jobs will be scarce and there will be no foreigners doing the low wage jobs. They will also move their money to offshore accounts to avoid taxes and low interest rates, or lower taxes and raise interest rates here, so that there is less money for social spending and housing etc becomes even less available to those wanting to buy. Travel will be difficult (particularly overseas travel), and food supplies are very likely to be disrupted in the short - medium term, and after wards prices will rise, and fresh food will have to be grown here (so potatoes and turnips, basically). Medicines will be rationed, which will speed up the Tory dismantling of the NHS which is already underway. Pensions will be hit, and probably the pension age will rise still further, and of course it will not be worth as much because of rises in food and fuel costs. So basically, the people who voted for it will be hit hardest, and who knows what will happen then? Civil unrest, political extremism, lack of opportunities for young people are all real possibilities, and goodness knows what will happen in Ireland.

On that cheerful note, I feel it's only fair to say that I am not an economist or a politician, and there are plenty of others who would disagree, and are expecting everything to go smoothly. I would love them to be right, but only time will tell :|.

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Re: General Support and Chat

Post by Iroquois » 05 Feb 2019 15:19

Wow, SueD!

That sounds pretty grim! Don't give up and go down without a fight! I think we have turned a corner with electing a Congressional House full of youthful, forward thinking, diverse, fierce and furious Democrats! With lots of WOMEN! The tide is turning as the white, male ruling class begins to fade and die off! (I know, not all white males are clinging to the past, so forgive me for lumping you all together!)

I have to laugh at the whole immigrants should be denied access concept! I admit, I used to feel like that, too. And there were lots of immigrants that came across and took advantage of all the benefits here. But now, the immigrants are fleeing savagery, and they will turn out to be the saving of us! The birth rate has been steadily dropping, so by 2030 there will be more old people than young people! 11 SHORT YEARS FROM NOW! So, welcoming immigrants is imperative to save our system of work and then retirement. The immigrants are desperate for jobs, money, and a better, free life! They get jobs, earn money, pay taxes, inject our culture with new ideas, new talents, new food, new enthusiasm! We really need them just as bad as they need us!

So, don't give up, I see the future as oil free, with new and refreshing thoughts, ideas and diversity of people! So, we get a little browner, what the heck, who cares? Everybody always wants a good suntan, accept it!

It will take a fight, but we will rise!

Don't lose faith! Deanna <:)> <:)> <:)>
There isn't enough alcohol in the world to make you happier, calmer, prettier, more clever or less angry.
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Re: General Support and Chat

Post by Rachel » 05 Feb 2019 17:51

Wow Sue. Sounds like Armageddon. ie worst possible case scenario... and not most likely one...?
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Re: General Support and Chat

Post by Pebbles » 05 Feb 2019 20:28

Hi folks :\:

I have not been on here in a very long time! BE was the final piece in the jigsaw and helped me to pack in drinking nearly 7 years ago. I recently spoke in person to someone who has gone through the 12 steps and been sober for decades and he was blown away by how much support I got on here and how I managed to stop and come nearly 7 years without going to a meeting or talking face to face to anyone else struggling with alcohol. I suppose I just wanted to say thanks to the people who run this forum and let the folk struggling know that it’s possible if you just keep trying. I am still aware and never complacent, I know I can’t ever drink but that’s ok, I want to live a life without all the yuck that comes with drinking. Big love to all on here, never give up. You can do this xxx

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Re: General Support and Chat

Post by Spats » 05 Feb 2019 21:52

Thanks Pebbles, it give me heart and hope, and strength knowing that there are people out there who have succeeded and aren’t bothered about being without alcohol. And in fact without being confronted by weekly sessions with others. Here you can get support 24/7 - well mostly (::)

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Re: General Support and Chat

Post by SueDenim » 05 Feb 2019 23:03

Rachel wrote:
05 Feb 2019 17:51
Wow Sue. Sounds like Armageddon. ie worst possible case scenario... and not most likely one...
I hope not, Rachel; but as it looks like Brexit will go ahead I don't see what else can happen, really.

Hi Pebbles - congratulations on 7 years! That's a great achievement :D

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Re: General Support and Chat

Post by Pork » 06 Feb 2019 06:47

You can have my turnips Sue <:)>

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Re: General Support and Chat

Post by Topcat » 06 Feb 2019 07:13

Pebbles wrote:
05 Feb 2019 20:28
I have not been on here in a very long time! BE was the final piece in the jigsaw and helped me to pack in drinking nearly 7 years ago.
Pebbles - how lovely to hear from you again and many congratulations on reaching nearly 7 years AF (::) \:)/ <:)> BE was the final piece in the jigsaw for me too after struggling for so long to crack it so I know what you mean. Well done lovely. TC xx
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Rachel
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Re: General Support and Chat

Post by Rachel » 06 Feb 2019 08:36

I thought the bad situations projected were to do with 'no deal'...

Reading yoru scenario would have had me reaching for the bottle a few years ago.
Last edited by Rachel on 06 Feb 2019 16:03, edited 1 time in total.
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