Breaking the cycle/gaining traction

[Tookie]

This thread is the best one on here I've read so far. The original post could have been written by me, word for word, and the replies are great.

[pajero]

I think back to the many times I slunk away to lick my wounds in private instead of using the support here. My pride played no small part in this but also to be honest it's hard to know what to say. It feels so ... I don't know ... desperately dispiriting perhaps is the best way to describe it.

Thanks for your post Zoe, it's given me a lot of food for thought today, and yes I agree, its hard to know what to say.
I'm feeling dreadful today, but will dust myself off and start again. There's nothing else to do really, is there?

[zoe]

Paj I can only speak from my own experience. Many times after a slip I felt assailed by very negative thoughts and feelings. There was a huge component of "what the hell, might as well carry on now" kind of thing too which made regaining traction all the more difficult.

I must admit though that by far the biggest issue for me was that I didn't actually want to be sober. What I wanted was to be able to drink but without the consequences. I wanted in very much the same way as a child wants things .... with little or no thought as to what would happen as a result.

I was responding to an emotional need, but in an entirely unproductive way. I drank instead of listening to my needs and trying to understand the nature of them so I could learn to respond differently. I guess I felt that whatever my needs were they were bound to be unacceptable because they came from within me. And I was afraid of my emotional self ... afraid to meet the real me face to face so instead I built a life based on a variety of roles and masks none of which felt "right" but I couldn't figure out what else to do ... except drink. I felt so sure that the real me was an awful person but I was wrong. She's actually just someone who struggles to understand things sometimes and gets a bit scared and muddled up. No great crime in that is there?

It seems these days that I hardly ever talk about drinking as a problem on its own ... even though it undoubtably does cause a hell of a lot of problems. I think it's because I've started to see that drinking was only ever a symptom of a deep seated unease with myself and with life in general. Learning to be more at ease has been key to me making progress and being here on the forum has made all the difference in the world to me Paj.

I will say one other thing. It really helped me to hang out with my mates here when things weren't going so well for me, and in particular hanging out with peeps with a good amount of sobriety built up. I think some of their experience rubs off you know? Hope to see you on the Nine Month thread very soon. xx Jos

[drinktoomuch]

What a great post Zoe! I always think to
myself that maybe i don't want to get sober
and that my problem isn't too bad ( function well
every day, hold down a high stress job, great
home life etc.... But the regaining traction, really
has hit home! Thanks:)

[Will13]

Hi my name is Will, I am 28 years old and have been trapped in a pretty awful relapse cycle for almost 3 months. Prior to relapsing I had been sober for over a year. I have relapsed so many times in the past 3 months I don't even want to look at a calendar to figure it out. My drinking has been worse now that it ever has been. One drinking spree will end, and I'll be sober for about a week, totally convinced I'm back on track, and then I drink again. I'm getting more and more hopeless in recovery. I have been to AA, I have a sponsor, but I just can't seem to get it right anymore. I don't know how to break this cycle. It is pretty obvious that my best thinking isn't getting me anywhere, and I'm just feeling totally broken at this point.

[frozensprouts]

Hi Will

I'm not sure if you've had a look around the other threads on the forum yet. If you do, you will soon see that there are lots of us here who understand the place you are in at the moment.
You've managed a whole year sober and you're only 28. That's pretty amazing for a start. I'm 40 and I've just managed 2 months. I haven't done that since I was 30, and only then because I was pregnant.

I don't know how much or how often you drink right now, but I can relate to the thought process you talk about. You say you feel more and more hopeless and you feel broken. I could have written the same thing around last October. What I did was go to my doctor (actually I got dragged there), and told them how I was feeling, and got help from there. It was the push I needed in order to start the process of feeling better which included stopping drinking.

There are other threads that are busier such as the 7 day challenge thread and new members which you can read and post on. You will be amazed at the amount of support and help you get here, so please keep reading and posting

[sallyann]

Will

Hope you are still out there, I read your post when I came to this thread to see how others are dealing with a relapse phase, as I am in that place too right now. But I do know that I get so much hope and support on here from others who have been there, who understand the struggle we have, who are bemused and confused by the irrational thinking that gets us here. I know it can feel hopeless when we seem to trash a sober spell by getting back in the same old cycle but you can start again, just a little wiser from the experience. I am aiming to do the same and last for longer...and you have already lasted far longer than I have and so you should feel proud of that.

So don't give up, check out the threads, post when you need to and just know you have friends on here who care, however bad you feel about yourself. Will be looking out for you,

Sallyann

[zoe]

I read your post when I came to this thread to see how others are dealing with a relapse phase, as I am in that place too right now

Hello there SallyAnn

I think the main thing that has helped me when dealing with lapses and relapses is knowing that others have been through the same thing. Sometimes we can feel very alone in our battles, and our individual circumstances can make us feel entirely isolated and "different" from everyone around us. "Why can they have a couple of drinks and stop ... and why can't I?" ... "what's wrong with me?" ... "why do I keep self-sabatoging?" ... "why am I sure I don't want to drink ever again in the mornings but feel compelled to have a drink later on the same day?" These questions and more play on our minds and most particularly in the aftermath of having had a drink the day before.

I would describe my recovery as 3 years of almost constant lapses and relapses as I struggled to come to terms with the depth of my drinking problem. I am such a slow learner SallyAnn but eventually even I came to understand that I can't drink and recover. It had to be one or the other for me because I don't and never really did want to be a moderate drinker. I could never see the point in moderate drinking ... in fact I still don't. To me those people who mostly stopped after a few drinks didn't really know how to drink properly ... turns out I had it upside down because I only knew how to drink one way and that was the wrong way.

I wanted to drink in order to feel different inside myself ... to get away from the person I had become ... to get away from the stresses of my life ... to drown out the past and the present ... to aleviate bad feelings ... to enhance good feelings. Basically I drank for every conceivable reason and couldn't seem to work out how to stop and stay stopped.

It used to really get to me when I saw people who seemed to "get it" and away they'd go ... zooming through the Sobriety Challenges, building up months and even years of sobriety. How come they can do it and not me? There must really be something very wrong with me.

And there was ... and is something wrong with me. I have a serious drinking problem. And there are reasons why I have this problem. In order to tackle the reasons effectively I need to stop drinking and stay stopped. This gives me the best chance to gain the clarity of thought I need as well as the courage to start breaking down the issues that lie at the heart of my drinking.

But to get to this point I had to work my way through the early stages of recovery, and it was there that I had the hardest time of all in terms of lapses and relapses. I wish I could have understood sooner that lapses can teach us things. I'd get so caught up in the awfulness of the feelings that I just couldn't or wouldn't see what I'd done ... how I'd let it happen ... and the implications of this in terms of my readiness and willingness to take on board the fundamental changes involved in recovery.

Recovery ... I use that word a lot. I always thought that recovery led to you being recovered. Seemed self evident to me that if you worked hard enough you would get well. And in a sense that is true ... but as in all things there are levels of wellness ... always room for improvement. In my case vast room!

It's easy to get very downhearted when caught in a relapse phase SallyAnn. It can seem like a very steep mountain to climb, the task of regaining sobriety. Sometimes looking at the steepness is so overwhelming that we fall into despair ... thinking that we'll never climb even part way up so why try? The journey seems so daunting some days, and in truth there are days when it seems all too much.

On those days I try to remember to do the simple things right. I remember the day at a time approach. Can you stay sober for a day? I know for me the answer is yes. Even if I don't always want to, I still can. Some days it is the only thing I do right, and whilst there are times when I feel like that is just pathetic in the face of all the things I need to get on with in my life, I also know that it is something to be proud of because when I started this journey I couldn't go more than a few days sober at most. I learnt how to string days and then weeks together here on BE. I learnt to see lapses as something not inevitable, but when they do happen the main thing is to learn from them. It's too easy to give up and if you're anything like me the easy option always looks the most attractive at first glance. But look again, see the deeper picture with all that misery and despair. Choose the better path and know that there are people cheering you on every step

Warmest hugs xx Jos

[sallyann]

Jos/Zoe

Thanks so much for taking the time to tune in to where I am and to share so much of your story - so many of your experiences really resonate. That really helps to know these feelings and thoughts that bring me down in a relapse have been felt by others too. I've been dropping in and out of BE for over 2 years now, finding that the positive intent that brought me here, the hope that this was THE change happening was just the start of a challenging journey and it still feels like the very beginning at times. The stories of others who come through are both inspiring but also dispiriting at times when I seem to make no real progress without slipping and sliding. It all feels so disheartening sometimes - but I am still here and keeping going. I draw hope from your experience of stringing longer spells together and I have reached the realisation that I should be aiming to never drink, rather that stay dry and them aim for occasional or moderate drinking. It's making that happen which feels daunting but I am still here and still up for finding a way through.

For me, like Will, coming to the relapsers thread is my current way in. Thanks for thoughts and hugs, with plenty of those I may do better on the challenges. I'll reread your post a lot to keep me grounded.

Love & hugs back
Sallyann

[zoe]

I would describe my recovery as 3 years of almost constant lapses and relapses as I struggled to come to terms with the depth of my drinking problem.

I've been dropping in and out of BE for over 2 years now, finding that the positive intent that brought me here, the hope that this was THE change happening was just the start of a challenging journey and it still feels like the very beginning at times

I often find Sallyann that once I start with the comparison game I get very down on myself indeed. What I should have conveyed more clearly was that I had spent some years trying to sort this problem out on my own prior to coming to BE ... and then a further 3 years trying to do so with the help and support of people here ... so when I describe myself as a slow learner I think you might begin now to see the reason!

I was talking to a good mate of mine recently, a chap who has nearly 2 decades of sobriety. He was telling me some of his drinking history and just how long it took him even after he reached out for help to start making progress in recovery. All told it added up to many many years. He was considered a completely hopeless case by even his closest friends and family and yet here he is today and he's well. I mean really and truly, he looks well, he is active and has friends and family back in his life, he has a job, a house, he goes on holiday .... all these "normal" things he'd thought he'd lost forever through his drinking.

Yes it does sometimes feel like we are back at the very beginning again, but think about it. In any form of study or practise there are often glitches. Do we send people who fail to get grade A results at secondary school back to kindergarten? No. We ask them to look at what went wrong ... to maybe study certain aspects in greater depth or get extra tuition in certain areas, and then we encourage them to progress on from there.

What I found hardest of all is getting myself caught up in the "relapse is inevitable, and I'm surely the worst failure ever because I keep doing this" mentality. Drinking fuels such deep levels of negativity and despair it's unreal ... and yet it feels incredibly real ... too real almost. Scarily so. It's amazing how dependant these feelings are on a continuation of self destructive drinking ... cessation begins the process of breaking them down, and building on sobriety by taking measures to support our own progress continues that process. In time we begin to see cause and effect all the more clearly and that in itself can help to bolster our resolve to keep going regardless of the challenges involved. The thing is Sallyann that we don't have to do all of this in one day, and neither do we have to do it alone. Step by step and side by side with others ... it can make all the difference in the world believe me. xx Jos

[sallyann]

Jos,

You hit a chord with that relapse mentality, and the cycle of feeling useless, trying again, slipping and feeling even more useless. I guess when I set out I was in denial about how big a problem I have and over-optimistic about how easy it would be to urn it around - I thought I'd just be able to make a choice, focus and get through. But I am staying with that choice, and as you say, need to focus on each day rather than looking further ahead and hoping I'll have made it by then. That much I think I am finally learning.

Good to have you and all the others on side xxSallyann

[Ed]

such wise words jos. I think its a very long process in most cases. ive seen many on here who have been here for years just getting the hang of it. I myself stopped for a year and thought i had cracked it but slipped back, then another 3 months and thought i had cracked it and then controlled drinking and wondered why i had slipped back into depression and regret and dysfunction. Its a mammoth task but i know that its one worth doing because we are only here once and owe it to ourselves not to waste it in this way. Im into my fourth week sober now. Ever vigilant, hopefully wiser.

[Jarvis]

Bumped up for mersault - hope it's useful to you!

[Swordgirl]

Hi All
not sure where to post this...I need to get my mojo back! I can't seem to go more than a month before I fall down. And when I fall it's like I never stopped, it feels so familiar. This in turn sets me up for another lapse soon after and then I despise myself. Sometimes I hold out against the lapse when the actual trigger occurs but then it's like it follows me around and a few days later I cave in. How do people get past these barriers? I don't think I have ever made past about 33 days. I am trying to console myself with the fact that out of the last 80 or so days about 74 of them are AF. But my most recent lapse has made me feel very vulnerable and upset with myself. I was feeling low prior to this as well.

I can't seem to fill my time with activity as others do when the EAF comes calling, I have no energy. I retreat to inaction and carbs or the gym which works most of the time but my knees are not co-operating at the moment.

I'm sorry for rambling and am mostly off line for a couple of days but will use my phone so apologies if anyone responds and I don't reply.

Thanks for listening
Sword.xx

[Winker]

Hi Sword. It struck me that you have some real advantages in being able to get past your current block:

a) you have acknowledged your 'risky' time of around about a month AF, and so are aware of the problem even if you haven't overcome it successfully straight away. Being aware of it is on the way to solving it, I think.
b) Most people, I think, find the first week or so AF the hardest with the urges to drink being strongest then. You know you can get past that week and the month of AF time you build up each time is likely to be keeping you physically healthy

I think we do tend to limit ourselves subconciously by our beliefs about ourselves and I do wonder whether you are struggling in that 1 month cycle because you now believe it's become an insurmountable problem for you around that time? You are reinforcing that belief by repeating the behaviour? I do think we can successfully challenge our beliefs though and I have absolutely no doubt you can get past the 1 month barrier if you want to! You absolutely can decide to do it.

I know in my own case I can potter along quite happily for a length of time and then sometimes, almost out of the blue it seems, the old EAF comes beckoning. I am finding though, that as time goes on its less often, less strong and being able to have the fall back of coming on here helps enormously as an extra support through those urges. You always find someone here who knows exactly where you're coming from don't you? Sometimes those urges do hang around for a few days off and on, as well, for me. I used to find exactly the same thing when I was quitting smoking too, sometimes weeks and months after the last smoke I would suddenly have an urge to do it again just when I thought I was free of it and didn't even think about it any more!

I know when you're fighting other battles too, and feeling low and less resilient it's hard. These things do pass though, in time, I think. When we've used alcohol as a way of quickly altering our mood at certain times it takes time to find other ways that maybe don't seem to work as fast or efficiently as having a drink, I think, doesn't it? I am finding though, that as time goes on, it gradually becomes less of an obvious solution and not one you seriously consider doing anymore. You become less 'wired' for it in a way, I think. It's hard to explain. Life can still suck at times though, it's just you become used to not using alcohol as well, compounding whatever problems you are currently dealing with.

I wonder if it's some kind of failsafe from the primitive part of our brains that conditions us to repeat behaviour that makes us feel good in the mistaken belief it is actually good for us despite us being intellectually aware that it's not! I have read that as a theory of addiction (arises in the amygdala?). Even though we've done extremely well not drinking for a few weeks with all our many and varied personal triggers, it seems it's still a short time for our brains to re-adjust and sadly it causes us to carry on as we were if we do succumb, so we get the whole thing back to fight again which is where you seem to be stuck.

The other thing that struck me was whether it could be linked to your menstrual cycle?

I picked up a book recently called 'Hunting the shadow' by Geoff Thompson. He's had an interesting life, is a martial arts teacher, playwright, ex- bouncer and no longer drinks. He comes across as being very normal but also inspiring too. He talks about being aware of your fears/shadows/failings and actually facing them down and how it gives you strength and courage and helps you find your 'purpose' in life. If you are a reader, you might find it interesting too?

[Jake.]

Swordie,

I was exactly the same as you!!

About 5 attempts since last august, couldn't seem to go past 34 days as my max. Now though, something seems to have clicked, but it just takes practice I think! i was back to drinking for a week or two at a time again, before having a major never again hangover! It does get better, and the more sober time you get the better you will become at abstaining!

so stick with it eh!

and be proud of yourself, you should be

[tee]

Yeah I agree jake, well put.

So I wanted to post somewhere in the relapse thread, and I figured this is as good a place as any.

After my last wine binge, I swore I'd never drink wine again, and I never have. Yesterday was a vodka binge, and paying dearly for it as I am, I swear I'll never drink vodka again. Yeah right I can hear you say, and you may be correct in your misgivings my lovely conscience, but I'm gonna give it a bash.

So I've finally got my ass in gear and joined the 7 day challenge, which I've not done in years. That is progress. I don't want to run before I can walk, but I hope I'm having that moment you speak of jake, when something just clicks and you realise change is gonna happen and is not something to fear.

I think that's gaining traction eh?

Xx

[Topcat]

Hi Tee and well done on deciding to get back up and try again - not easy to do .

Like Jake says, practice really does equal perfect and something does suddenly click into place and you find sobriety is the life of choice, not necessity. If you don't keep trying, you'll never know if this time could be "the one".

I hope it is for you Tee and good luck to you

[tee]

My lovely Topcat, thank you so so much for your words of encouragement, they mean so much at this awful awful time.

I have taken a rehydration sachet and eaten a banana to try to ease the way I'm feeling a bit. When I was lying awake last night at 4am with The Dread, you know that hideous anxious feeling that wakes you up after a binge? I found myself thinking, how many more times do I need to go through this? And the answer of course, is none. It was a revelation.

I've often come on here bemoaning the fact that I'm feeling terrible and hoovering up all the lovely support offered giving little in return. The trouble is after a while the novelty wears off and I struggle to find a thread that I fit in on. Abstinence? Pah, I'll just cut down for a wee while and it'll all be fine. Well, there's only so long I can go round and round in circles isn't there. This time I want it The difficult part I know is going to be keeping up the momentum, so joining the 7 day challenge feels like a huge step forward, so it's not all bad eh?

My lovely Topcat have you really been abstinent since May? That is amazing! I'd love to hear more about your story and what you've found has worked for you if you have time?

[Topcat]

Sure Tee, I'll let you have my life story (or bits I can print) if you like. Maybe later. Yes, I really have been sober since May 2011 - 19 months and I never thought I'd manage 4 weeks (that was always my stumbling block).

Keep up with the hydration drinks and bananas are great to nibble on. Can you get some exercise? A walk always helped me. Take care and be back later