Practical Advice About Detox and Getting Sober

[smudge]

I'd like to read some of your links Dave.

[smudge]

Dave/Jaxom

Since you have not bothered to actually post anything in support of your advice that people don't need high-dose thiamine and are in fact wasting their time if they take it, I've decided to post in support of my own contention that people should take high-dose thiamine if they want to keep a functional memory.

I wrote a post earlier on this thread - this one - in which I discussed thiamine supplementation at some length. I gave 10 links to other pages which I thought had something worth saying about thiamine supplementation in alcoholics.

One was from NHS Grampian.

One was from dryoutnow.com which is the website of a company which runs private detox facilities and outpatient programmes for alcoholics and drug addicts in the UK.

One was from a website that supplies electronic versions of Patient Information Leaflets and other information about drugs which are prescribed in the UK.

Five links were from the Oxford University Press medical journal called Alcohol & Alcoholism.

And two of my links were from websites I thought people might find easier to read than the scientific papers I had linked to.

And I will hang my head in mock shame and admit that, yes, I found all of these links by googling.

[Jake.]

Nothing wrong with a bit of Googling

[powellct]

Can I just point out that now I'm working with alcohol users, the first thing the staff do at the Service Provider is jab someone with a high dose B cocktail - before they even think of detox. Ditto at A&E - and around 50% of my group have been through that (not that they've stopped using, but thats another story).

If it gets pissed out because its water soluable, I personally don't see any issue with taking a supplement. And far be it from me to argue with trained counsellors......

[Jake.]

Hi Colin, good to see a SMARTie

So are you saying Dave that only malnourished people require vitamin D in your opinion, people who only drink and don't eat properly, rather than people who still get 3 square meals a day?

A lot of Vitamins these days are 1000% RDA. I know my berocca is. That's because RDAs are outdated guidelines that were formulated during the world wars, a vitamin easily secreted and surplus to requirements has got to be better than guesstimates or malnourishment

[jaffa21]

Hi. I have just got some Kudzu root but it is still sat on my work top untouched. Is it supposed to suppress the urge for alcohol or just help with hangovers?!

Thanks. X

[jaffa21]

Just reading back further and I don't want to upset anyone but I know I'll take umpteen vitamins and 'piss' out the extra that my body needs if a Dr says it will help my brain and memory recover.

I know that my memory has been damaged as I can't always remember conversations from the day before and no I wasn't drunk whilst those conversations took place.

I also have done some ' googling' and found most sites recommend thiamine.

I asked a best friend of mine - a staff nurse and she also said- you MUST take the Thiamine although I'm a heavy drinker that eats fairly well.

[Jaxom]

Hi Jaffa. I haven't used it but my understanding is that it helps you get the buzz from drinking while consuming less. I can't see the point of that cos I needed to get functioning without the buzz but that is just me!

There is a very short article about kudzu on the Bright Eye site here. Although it mentions reducing cravings at the start that is not what it actually says later on.

The only advice I can offer from my own experience of cravings is a bit boring and probably not what you want to hear but: cravings get weaker and further apart the longer you can stay AF. I find it very significant that on the earlier challenges people talk about cravings. Later on they talk about 'drinking thoughts'. That is my experience. You can still think about having a drink but it is not the craving that gets you pacing up and down or climbing the walls. It becomes an unwelcome distraction but if you push it out of your head then it goes. Eventually you can even laugh it off as you firmly bin it. Firmly being the operative word.

Dave

PS Back to the vitamin issue. I did not mean to imply it was a waste of time, just not a big issue. YES, take the supplements because you could well need them and a thiamine deficiency is not good BUT do not worry about dosage. Your gp has prescribed more than your body can use but not enough to cause overdose problems. I am still not a doctor btw.

[powellct]

Hi Jake - yes, BE was my board of choice before I got totally immersed in SRUK. I do see your posts on the board, but personally I find it difficult to use compared to the US version.

Glad we've cleared the B-Vit issue up. And it is a point of fact that urges/craving do diminish if you don't give in. We even have a tool for that in SR, eh Jake......

Jaffa - your memory may or may not be permanently FUBARd, experience tells me (personal and having run meetings for over 2 years) that up to - if not longer than - a year, your brain is effectively rewiring itself. My memory was shot, but now its better than it was before (I think. I was drinking for a lot of years). The brain is a remarkable thing, but Smudge is quite right - the whole B-Vit thing is really important in the early weeks to avoid WK or similar.

[joop]

bumping

[smudge]

I've just realised that this thread has no information on "urge surfing". Since lots of people find it a helpful technique for dealing with cravings I thought it deserved a post here. Urge surfing is a technique used for all sorts of addictive behaviours not just alcohol.

If you feel that cravings are tormenting you and that fighting them just makes them feel bigger and bigger then you really need to learn urge surfing to cut those cravings down to size.

A short summary about the subject can be found here (the whole page is worth reading, not just the bit about urge surfing) :

http://helpguide.org/mental/alcohol_abu ... n.htm#plan

A longer explanation can be found here :

http://www.mindfulness.org.au/URGE%20SURFING.htm

Try it. And google it too, there are loads of pages on the subject on the web. You really have nothing to lose.

[jaffa21]

Hi all. Ive not been on in ages due to family being in hospital and also the fact i was still drinking it didnt feel right. Anyhow.....I have my appointment today for my medical to see if they will allow me to start a home detox on monday!!!! Yayyyyy SO. I was wondering if anyone could give me an idea of what will happen at this Medical this afternoon???? Im nervous to say the least!!! Many thanks Jaffa. xx

[Elizabeth]

Hey jaffa how'd the medical go? Did you get the green light to start the detox? I hope it all went well for you

Elizabeth

[jaffa21]

Hi!! it went really well thanks. Yes big green light to start on Monday morning. . I am soooo pleased.

[rmetcalfe1987]

Hi!! it went really well thanks. Yes big green light to start on Monday morning. . I am soooo pleased.

so pleased for you jaffa21. i start my home medicated detox tomorro good luck

[rmetcalfe1987]

hi there im starting my home medicated detox tomorro , and ive been taking extra strong vit b and thiamine tablets for the last 3 weeks , and will take them until im told to stop , i dont want to take any risks , ive took risks on my life through alch for the last 6 years. im hoping to repair some of the damage ive done , also i need as many brain cells as i can get ,with or without alch lol xx

[Topcat]

All the best for the detox rmetcalfe - keep us informed of progress

[jaffa21]

Yayyy. Here's to us all for tomorrow starting home detox. Gods luck to us all eh?! I've been taking thiamine and vit b for a couple of months now...lets hope they help ))). My last drink had just been consumed!!!! .

[jaffa21]

Good luck even. Lol

[powellct]

As a user of SMART Recovery techniques (and BE prior to launching myself into SMART), as well as a member of the SRUK "Big Team" due to go out training facilitators and Recovery Champions, several people have asked me write a bit on this thread for people who are just starting their journey. I would point out that I asked Tobin's permission to post SR stuff a while ago.
NOTE: SR (SMART Recovery) is just one of many methods to stop addictive behaviour, including but not limited to AA, Moderation Management, Intuitive Recovery, various Service Providers, and private counsellors (such as Tobin). Your choice is just that - your choice. SR works for me, BE was invaluable in the early days, neither may work for other people. I make no apology for copy/pasting a lot of stuff from the SRUK website, as its a structured sort of program.
About me: I'm 49 years old, feel 60 some days, 35 others. I was a 30-40 unit/day drinker for many years.

"SMART began in 1994 in the United States. It has grown into a worldwide network of self-help meetings, both face-to-face and online, where participants can get help from others in recovery. SMART operates as a non-profit organisation in many countries including the United States, the UK, Canada and Australia.

There is no single approach to recovery that is right for everyone. Research into various recovery methods and therapies suggests that mutual aid can help recovery and so can treatment – a combination of the two is probably even better for many people.

SMART Recovery helps participants decide whether they have a problem, builds up their motivation to change and offers a set of proven tools and techniques to support recovery. This is the SMART Recovery 4-point programme:
Building and maintaining motivation
Coping with urges
Managing thoughts, feelings and behaviours
Living a balanced life

People can stay with SMART as long as they wish. There is no requirement to make a lifetime commitment to the programme, just to their recovery and leading a healthier life. "

That's it in a nutshell. What we do essentially is look at the "whys" of your addictive behaviours (clue there). That is - its not the fact that you've had a row with the wife, or you're down the pub with Eddie the Fish - its what your reaction to that event is. After all, that's about the only thing you can change most of the time....
But its one thing looking at your irrational responses to an event - once you've got that under control, Bob's your mothers live-in lover..... But is doesn't take away the cravings in the first instance - those "climbing the wall wanting a drink" feelings. Been there, done that. But learning to understand what they are, what they do, and putting them into perspective is all part of the journey. Its mentioned above that Urge Surfing is a technique - yep. The statement that urges and cravings gradually diminish is also true.

I could rabbit on for hours, but if you want more information, the SRUK website is in my sig, Jake also has it as a button on his profile. The Stateside version drops the .uk. If you can't get to a F2F meeting, there are online meetings Sunday and Wednesday (6:30/7:30 respectively) - you will need to register with the website, but like this site, use an alias if you want. On top of that, we decided that user data will not be recorded in the way a lot of forums record it - you are genuinely confidential.
SR is not some fly-by-night Mickey Mouse organisation - its being taken as a very serious alternative to 12-step in the recovery field (as required by the Roadmap to Full Recovery). Give it a go, there's no cost (well, bar a donation for tea & biscuits at F2F meets!), no obligation, no "you'll never get better" - just support and advice. No-one MAKES you drink but you.
I'm open and honest about all this - lots of people on here simply know me as Col (Colin).
Stay lucky, but never stay alone.